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[AK4]

Hey yall,

i just want to include yall in this discussion me and my friend is having.  I asked him "what is the most important question", "who? what? when? where? why? and How?"

We have our back and forths, its a silly game we do. So i wanna include you guys in too. Which one do you think is the most important question?  This ment to be a fairly discussion, nobody right, nobody wrong, but all opinions welcomed.  Please back up your answer in some way

[grapehound]

Good Question Anthony.

Q: Who am I?

[lilitalienboi16]

Did God (The Father) ever struggle against some great incomprehensible evil and come out on top, to eventually lead Him to the perfect being that He is today, being only good and filled with Light and no turning of shadows, yet with the knowledge of this "evil." Well did He?

I think yes, because as ray put it, where did this knowledge of evil come from if there is no evil or any such thing anywhere near close to God and he was the only one around before the creation?

[John from Kentucky]

Did God (The Father) ever struggle against some great incomprehensible evil and come out on top, to eventually lead Him to the perfect being that He is today, being only good and filled with Light and no turning of shadows, yet with the knowledge of this "evil." Well did He?

I think yes, because as ray put it, where did this knowledge of evil come from if there is no evil or any such thing anywhere near close to God and he was the only one around before the creation?

Isa. 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me..."

Isa. 45:7 "I...create evil..."

[Marky Mark]

Did God (The Father) ever struggle against some great incomprehensible evil and come out on top, to eventually lead Him to the perfect being that He is today, being only good and filled with Light and no turning of shadows, yet with the knowledge of this "evil." Well did He?

I think yes, because as ray put it, where did this knowledge of evil come from if there is no evil or any such thing anywhere near close to God and he was the only one around before the creation?

1Co 4:6  My brothers, it is because of you that I have taken Apollos and myself as examples of these things, so that in us you might see that it is not wise to go farther than what is in the holy Writings,

Isa 55:8  For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Hey Alex.

Who God is and what He is doing [with humanity] is not mutually exclusive. The Father is self existent [eternal] so everything had to come out of Him. Light and darkness are Gods creation and both are alike to the One who created it. There is none else beside Him. We are all a work in progress to be saved alive according to His will,through an all knowing Spirit.

Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:.

Psa 139:12  Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
 
Isa 45:5  I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6  That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness:I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Gen 50:20 And you, you devised against me evil, yet the Elohim devises it for me for good,that it may work out as at this day, to preserve alive many people.


Peace...Mark

[lilitalienboi16]

Did God (The Father) ever struggle against some great incomprehensible evil and come out on top, to eventually lead Him to the perfect being that He is today, being only good and filled with Light and no turning of shadows, yet with the knowledge of this "evil." Well did He?

I think yes, because as ray put it, where did this knowledge of evil come from if there is no evil or any such thing anywhere near close to God and he was the only one around before the creation?

Isa. 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me..."

Isa. 45:7 "I...create evil..."

Yes, we all know the Lord creates evil. Thank you john.

[lilitalienboi16]

Did God (The Father) ever struggle against some great incomprehensible evil and come out on top, to eventually lead Him to the perfect being that He is today, being only good and filled with Light and no turning of shadows, yet with the knowledge of this "evil." Well did He?

I think yes, because as ray put it, where did this knowledge of evil come from if there is no evil or any such thing anywhere near close to God and he was the only one around before the creation?

1Co 4:6  My brothers, it is because of you that I have taken Apollos and myself as examples of these things, so that in us you might see that it is not wise to go farther than what is in the holy Writings,

Isa 55:8  For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Hey Alex.

Who God is and what He is doing [with humanity] is not mutually exclusive. The Father is self existent [eternal] so everything had to come out of Him. Light and darkness are Gods creation and both are alike to the One who created it. There is none else beside Him. We are all a work in progress to be saved alive according to His will,through an all knowing Spirit.

Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:.

Psa 139:12  Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
 
Isa 45:5  I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6  That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness:I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Gen 50:20 And you, you devised against me evil, yet the Elohim devises it for me for good,that it may work out as at this day, to preserve alive many people.


Peace...Mark

Hey yall,

i just want to include yall in this discussion me and my friend is having.  I asked him "what is the most important question", "who? what? when? where? why? and How?"

We have our back and forths, its a silly game we do. So i wanna include you guys in too. Which one do you think is the most important question?  This ment to be a fairly discussion, nobody right, nobody wrong, but all opinions welcomed.  Please back up your answer in some way

Sorry for playing along in this silly game and wondering where the Lord, God the Father, got His KNOWLEDGE of evil from. I'm well aware He is the reason evil is created and exists in our world today. That wasn't what my question was about AT ALL.

[lilitalienboi16]

Now, we don’t think about these things.  I’m trying to get people to look at these scriptures.  Look at the words, believe it and see what it says.  “glorify Me with thine own self with the glory which I had…”  Glorify mean a worthy name or worthy to be praised or worthy to be extolled or worshipped.  Christ said, give Me back this glory which I had with You.   Where did He get it?  What did Jesus Christ do, before the foundation of the world, that entitled Him to glory?  What?  I mean does God just put crowns and accolades on people?  What did He do to deserve it, nothing?  I’m all powerful.  Where did He get the power?  Christ tells where He got His power and stuff.  He said God gave it to Me, “all power is given to Me of the Father.”  That’s where He got it.  

But now glory is something that you do, that exalts you as someone to be worshipped, adored, and appreciated, for what, you’ve done.  What did He do before the creation of the world?  Before He created the world...what did He do?  Well I contend that He did something.
  
Somebody ask the other day, ‘why is God going through all this ( I could almost hear them say nonsense) to create sons of God?  If He created Christ Jesus, why doesn’t He just create a whole bunch of Jesus?'  Well why doesn’t He just make a whole bunch of Jesus’?  We wouldn’t have to go through all this pain and suffering, growing old and being sick, hurting and dying?  Just create a bunch of Jesus’ and then He’ll have all the sons He wants.  

We don’t know what Jesus went through.  How did He become number One?  How did He become the Son of God?  How did He become glorified?  What did He go through?  It says;

Heb 5:8  “though He was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which He suffered;”  

‘Yea, but that was talking about things in His physical life.’  Was it?  Was it really?  We could say that and give examples of it.  But is that exclusively what it was talking about?  Only in the physical flesh, did He suffer to learn obedience and so on?  
Let me show you something, back in Genesis;

Gen 3:22  “And the Lord God said, now the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil;”

When there was only God, no creation, no star systems, just God.  What did He know about evil?  What evil?  

Now He creates man and He said, “now he can become like one of Us, to know…”  and of course you can say good, because God is good.  But evil?  How did God know evil?  What in the universe... well there wasn’t a universe, well what in God then was there that was evil?  How did He know evil?  He created evil, but where did it come from?  Where did the idea come from?  When it was only God, who is righteous and good and Holy and just and all of that, where was the evil?  God was evil?  

What I’m saying is He knew evil, how did He know evil?  Now man understands evil.  They are going to be banished from the garden and they die.  This is an evil that has come upon them, because they disobeyed.  Which is another evil you see.  But God said “We understand good and evil,”( Gen. 3: 22)  Before there was a creation, God understood evil.  From where? From what?

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html

I'm upset right now, you're talking to me like I'm an idiot and I don't understand basic things like God created evil. You guys are so quick to correct and teach, this was an off topic post for silly questions.

[A question to Ray]  His reply; He’s just thinking ahead that He is going to create something called evil?  But where would that concept come from?  If He’s thinking ahead, He’s going to create a Son, who was going to live righteous and good.  But that comes from Him, that is what He is.  God is love, God is spirit, He’s invisible, this is what He is.  God is not evil.  How did He know evil?  I have some ideas about that.  What I’m saying is you can all see that it was there.  We’re going to go a little deeper then these other people go.  

God is all wise, all knowing, all powerful and He does not change.  Did He ever?  That’s what He is now, but did He have to go through something to become what He is.  Hmm, wow maybe there is more glory in that then you could ever conceive of.  Well why doesn’t He change?  ’What are you trying to say Ray, are you trying to insinuate that He’s learning?’  No, He knows it all.  When you reach perfection, you don’t change.  Once you reach total perfection, you do not change! Jesus Christ is the express, very absolute, image of God.  Guess what?  He doesn’t change.  You don’t change when you are perfect.  Total perfection!  Well you think about that.

The Bible starts “In the beginning…”  In Gen. 1:1, Right?  No, wrong pale face.  It just says “In beginning…” or if anything  “In a beginning…”  

I don’t want to give the wrong impression when I say God knows all and He’s perfect, but did He always know what He knows?  
Did God ever grow?
Did God ever experience anything bad, to become perfect?

Well He doesn’t tell us.  But I’m just saying I see little insights.  You know He knew good and evil.  How did He know evil, when there was nothing but Him?  See what I’m saying, there was not even Christ.  Now by the time Christ came along as the Son of God... because you see ‘We,' you know the ‘We’ in Genesis.  But that still includes the Father, that knew good and evil.  But how?  Well people don’t even think about it, they just think that’s God He knows everything.  Yea but where was it(evil)... I mean God is not evil.  But where was the evil, that He knew evil?  

I'm just wondering if someday we are going to learn that God is not a magic Jeanie in a lantern.  That God has BECOME what He is.  Some will say, ‘well I don’t know what to think about that.’  We know He is what He is, but what I’m saying is, what if He BECAME what He is.  Maybe God is a whole lot more better and stronger then we could ever dream.  Because you could have an idea like you think He’s like a King born with a silver spoon in His mouth.  That He was always God and He always had everything He wanted.  He just snaps His fingers and presto.  But what if it wasn’t always that way?  What if God has 10 trillion times the character that we have?

Where did the concept come from, that you have to endure pain and hardship, to develop Godliness?  Where did that concept come from?  Well you say God just invented it.  Why would you invent something that doesn’t exist like that?  
He wants us to become like Him.  But are we going to do it through something that has no relevance, to what He is whatsoever?  That doesn’t quite make sense to me.  

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html

[Dave in Tenn]

Alex, you didn't answer Anthony's question either.    Of course, niether did John or Mark.  

Play or stay away.

Who, what, when, where, or why?

I'm going with WHO.  Because a WHO is already a what, the 'when and the where' are usually insignificant variables, the WHY tells us about the character of the WHO, and the HOW about the Who's abilities and choices...both of which would be meaningless without the WHO they refer to.

That's the best I can do after seconds of soul-searching.    

[onelovedread]

My opinion is 'why'. I think that when we're with the Lord we'll begin to understand his purposes: why some are made vessels of honor and some of dishonor, why only few are chosen, why Israel was favored above all other nations, why God continues to love us even after we continually screw up... man there sure are a lot of 'whys'

[Marky Mark]

I'm upset right now, you're talking to me like I'm an idiot and I don't understand basic things like God created evil. You guys are so quick to correct and teach, this was an off topic post for silly questions.

Alex,sorry for the misunderstanding,I based my reply on your question.

Well did He?

Peace...Mark

[Stacey]

AK4, I can see where you and your friend could go round and round with this one.  It is interesting. I gotta go with "why." Seems to me if we know the "why" then all the other questions would be answered.

[cjwood]

i'm going with 'who' also.  from there we can hopefully learn the answers to the other questions.

claudia

[Extol]

I have to agree with Dave and Claudia here. All is of God, and God is a Who. 

Who [is] like Thee among the gods, O Jehovah? Who [is] like Thee -- honourable in holiness -- Fearful in praises -- doing wonders? Exodus 15:11

Who hath ascended into the heavens, or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in his fists? Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His son's name? Tell me if you know!  Proverbs 30:4

Treasure not up to yourselves treasures on the earth, where moth and rust disfigure, and where thieves break through and steal, but treasure up to yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth disfigure, and where thieves do not break through nor steal, for where your treasure is, there will be also your heart.  Matthew 6:19-21

When thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. Isaiah 26:9

and they having heard, with one accord did lift up the voice unto God, and said, `Lord, thou [art] God, who didst make the heaven, and the earth, and the sea, and all that [are] in them, who, through the mouth of David thy servant, did say, Why did nations rage, and peoples meditate vain things? the kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord and against His Christ. Acts 4:24-26

From Jehovah [are] the steps of a man, And man -- how understandeth he his way? Proverbs 20:24

And they said to him again, `What did he to thee? how did he open thine eyes?' John 9:26

[Deborah-Leigh]

There is no most important question!

You want back up...

God IS who, what, when, how and why. NO separate questions but all together, God is all in all. Questions separated is the manifest nations of humankind diversity. No one is higher or more important than another.

Light is red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo and violet. Not just one color but all colors are important not one higher or more important than another.

When questions or color bands of light are see as one together not separate, then all colors are gone and only white Light remains.

When questions of who, what,when how and why are seen as one together not separate, then all questions disappear and only One God remains.

God is One. When separated, diversity manifests.

Father is as white Light and Son is as the prism that separates the Light of God into the manifest being of the spectrum of life.

Arc

[Joel]

In your question to your friend, you said "WHAT is the most important question" so you must think WHAT is.

I think they all go hand in hand.

Who? God the Father.
What? sent his Son.
When? 2,000 years ago.
Where? Israel.
Why? God so loved the world.
How? Jesus died willingly on the cross.

 :)Joel

[Deborah-Leigh]

Jesus demonstrates the earnest, anguished prayer to God, to let the cup pass.

Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Jesus did not exhibit the love of power but the power of Love.

IMO, the cup did pass for Jesus and the Will of His Father was accomplished!

Arc

[Drew]

I agree with Arc. All questions are convergent. Also, it makes no sense to me that the Son would ever ask anything of the Father that wouldn't be answered in the affirmative. Therefore, the cup did pass and Father's will was accomplished. Amen.

Thanks, Arc.

[mharrell08]

Jesus demonstrates the earnest, anguished prayer to God, to let the cup pass.

Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Jesus did not exhibit the love of power but the power of Love.

IMO, the cup did pass for Jesus and the Will of His Father was accomplished!

Arc

I agree with Arc. All questions are convergent. Also, it makes no sense to me that the Son would ever ask anything of the Father that wouldn't be answered in the affirmative. Therefore, the cup did pass and Father's will was accomplished. Amen.

Thanks, Arc.

No, the cup did not pass...that would have been contrary to the Father's Will:

Excerpt from Lake of Fire Part 15-B (http://bible-truths.com/lake15-B.html):

God said that He would "make" the soul of Jesus an offering for sin. God doing the "making" is the CAUSE. Therefore, Jesus was not free to run from the cross. God inspired Jesus [caused] Him to pray. And God caused Jesus to pray that His Father’s will, would be done, not His Own will. It was a real battle for a few hours. The will of Jesus cried out for another way other than to drink the cup and go to the cross. Hour after hour He poured out His heart to His Father. And hour after hour His Father propped Him up so that He would not and could not give in to His flesh.

God MADE Jesus go through that spiritual battle of His will, but never for a second was the plan of God in jeopardy! God had clearly prophesied the positive outcome of this battle hundreds of years before its actual occurrence. And absolutely nothing in the history of the universe has ever thwarted God’s plan, purpose or intention.

The Father inspired [caused, made] Jesus state time after time, "Not My will but Thine, Not My will but Thine, NOT MY WILL BUT THINE"!!

It was the very words of His Father that Jesus prayed. Those words that came out of the mouth of Jesus first came out of the heart of His Father, and God’s Words never ever return to Him void.

    "So shall My word be that goes forth out of My mouth [and into the mouth of Jesus]: it shall NOT RETURN UNTO ME [as when Jesus prayed back those same words to His Father] VOID, but it SHALL ACCOMPLISH that which I please, and IT SHALL PROSPER in the thing whereto I sent it" (Isa. 55:11).

'To drink the cup' meant to die on the cross after extreme torture. This actually happened, it was not passed over, Jesus took up His cross and finished His Father's work.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[John from Kentucky]

Marques is correct.  That cup did not pass from Jesus.

Also, I respect Jesus for asking that the cup pass.  Who in their right mind would want to go through torture?  This shows me that Jesus was not a nut but had a sound mind.

Another lesson I learned from that prayer of Jesus.  If the Father said no to Jesus, then the Father won't hesitate to say no to me.  Many things that I have asked for in prayer, I have received an answer from the Father of NO!