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[stephen]

I was surfing the net and came across the following video clip of Darren brown. For anyone having difficulties with Ray's teaching on man's free will this will really cast some light on the subject. I mean
this young lady really thought she was in charge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WSmjLMVa5I

I'm not suggesting that this is how God works His will through us. It is simply an illustration that God is able to make us think that we have freedom of choice

Stephen

[Akira329]

A good example of how people can be easily led.
A good example of influence.
He told her exactly what he wanted her to have all through the clip.
I would have been more impressed if the toy store didn't have a giraffe spotted theme to it!

By the way,
Free will is not synonymous with free choice.
We do have free choice not free will.
Many people would not have chosen a giraffe. Its TV!, wouldn't add any creditably to Derren if his techniques didn't always work.
Also if you put me in a toy store there is only one place I'm headed. LEGO's!!!
I would love to see Derren make me choose a barbie over some lego's!!!

Antaiwan

[Marky Mark]

Free will is not synonymous with free choice.
We do have free choice not free will.

Hey Antaiwan,hope things are well with you.
As Ray states,we make choices, but they are not free.

Email reply from Ray.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1731.0.html

Dear Morgan:
You obviously did not read my four-part (120 page) series on "The Myth of Free Will Exposed," neither do you believe the Scriptures. Virtually all people who believe in "free will," do not even know it it is!  How can one be sure that he has something that he doesn't even know what it is?  Free will is not the ability to make a choice. Choice has absolutely nothing to do with "free will."  "FREE Choice" has to do with "free will," but there is not such thing as "free choice" EITHER!
God be with you,
Ray



Peace...Mark

[Dave in Tenn]

There was a short series on the Discovery Channel (I think) lately that had a guy like this--maybe the same guy.  It's very eye-opening to see how easily persuaded and predictable people are.  I had the same thoughts about how the illusion of free will operates watching that show.  It's very telling. 

[stephen]

I really apologise for creating the wrong impression. The point I was trying to make was how our choices are effected by "causes" without us being aware of it. God is the author of all causes but I was not suggesting that God uses these types of methods.

Perhaps I should have been more clear in what I was trying to convey.

Stephen

[servias]

I really apologise for creating the wrong impression. The point I was trying to make was how our choices are effected by "causes" without us being aware of it. God is the author of all causes but I was not suggesting that God uses these types of methods.

Perhaps I should have been more clear in what I was trying to convey.

Stephen

Your not creating a wrong anything.  This video shows exactly how choices and free will are not free.  Thanks for sharing!

[Dave in Tenn]

I agree/\  I didn't get that impression either.  It's a near perfect picture in miniature of how things are.

Do good.

[Akira329]

Free will is not synonymous with free choice.
We do have free choice not free will.

Hey Antaiwan,hope things are well with you.
As Ray states,we make choices, but they are not free.

Email reply from Ray.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1731.0.html

Dear Morgan:
You obviously did not read my four-part (120 page) series on "The Myth of Free Will Exposed," neither do you believe the Scriptures. Virtually all people who believe in "free will," do not even know it it is!  How can one be sure that he has something that he doesn't even know what it is?  Free will is not the ability to make a choice. Choice has absolutely nothing to do with "free will."  "FREE Choice" has to do with "free will," but there is not such thing as "free choice" EITHER!
God be with you,
Ray



Peace...Mark

oops, I stand corrected!
Antaiwan