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Author Topic: Deuteronomy 21:18-21?  (Read 7821 times)

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DougE6

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Re: Deuteronomy 21:18-21?
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2011, 06:58:14 PM »

Quote
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
So true. If we all followed this, there would be no need for any rules and laws and ordinances an the like.

But BACK THEN, Jesus had not YET given His, This, wonderful summary, this golden rule. God had only given these laws. He did not intend for the full revelation that would ONLY be provided in the giving of His Son to be provided merely in a bunch of laws. That is why the laws were destined to be only a shadow, and a "schoolmaster" to let sin be indentified as sin, and to show that yes indeed, sin demands Death. Even if it your own family members.  If I lived back then, and I wanted to follow the Lord, I would of had to keep the law, the ceremonies, the circumcision, and the rules.  If I was a true follower of the only true God, I would have to do the very things the law demanded. Including the killing of transgressors. Sorry. That is/was the way it was.  We do not need to surgarcoat that away and say the law was not literal. Of course it was. First the physical, then the spiritual. We need to understand that sin does have consequences, it does have wages..Death.  Jesus paid those wages, yes. Halleleujah. But we need to see it all in the proper light. We need to have a sober mind about evil and sin.  God did not institute all those rules and regulations without a purpose. It is wonderful that we can see the purpose much more clearly than those that did not have our 20/20 hindsight of seeing the completion and fulfillment of the Law and Prophets in Christ. It should allow us to understand what God is showing us even more. But to say that those laws were not to be obeyed, were not literal laws, is incorrect. They were.  They have been done away with in the New Covenant and in the much more glorious promises wherein; but we cannot dismiss from which our gospel came.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Deuteronomy 21:18-21?
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2011, 09:42:49 PM »


Hey, River.  No worries.  I understood what you were saying, agree, and appreciate your reply to clarify.

...we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; yes, we do.



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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

mharrell08

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Re: Deuteronomy 21:18-21?
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2011, 07:58:39 AM »

But BACK THEN, Jesus had not YET given His, This, wonderful summary, this golden rule.


Deut 10:17-19  For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe. He administers justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the stranger, giving him food and clothing. Therefore love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.


As Paul said, the Law is spiritual. It was spiritual the moment it was given. Israel simply did not have the heart to obey the commandments.


Deut 5:29  Oh, that they had such a heart in them that they would fear Me and always keep all My commandments, that it might be well with them and with their children forever!


Marques
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Rene

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Re: Deuteronomy 21:18-21?
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2011, 11:40:33 AM »

I would hope we wouldn't stone our kids at all. Not sure how many people really don't kill kids just because they think Jesus "bore that death with his own body." I really would hope that wouldn't be the only reason a person could come up with not to kill a kid. Even those who are unbelievers would be against stoning kids.
 

This heartbreaking story just happened. :(

Girl spanked to death in the name of God.   http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/08/15/exp.ac.tuchman.punishment.cnn?&hpt=hp_c2

René



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JohnMichael

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Re: Deuteronomy 21:18-21?
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2011, 07:55:40 PM »

I would hope we wouldn't stone our kids at all. Not sure how many people really don't kill kids just because they think Jesus "bore that death with his own body." I really would hope that wouldn't be the only reason a person could come up with not to kill a kid. Even those who are unbelievers would be against stoning kids.
 

This heartbreaking story just happened. :(

Girl spanked to death in the name of God.   http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/08/15/exp.ac.tuchman.punishment.cnn?&hpt=hp_c2

René


That is heartbreaking. To me, that shows what Legalism does.

In Him,
John
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lostANDfound

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Re: Deuteronomy 21:18-21?
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2011, 01:29:51 AM »

i'm having trouble getting that video out of my head.  asking myself, are we really all capable of such things, but for the grace of God? 
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Kat

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Re: Deuteronomy 21:18-21?
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2011, 11:16:59 AM »


That is so disturbing, it is truly horrific to bear witness to something so incomprehensible. YET I truly believe that any of us are more than capable of equally vile acts, if God did not frame evil (Jer 18:11). All our carnal nature needs is a certain set of circumstances/causes to lead us into doing something just as despicable. If we do not believe that then we are kidding ourself. We are all initially made out of the same lump of carnal human nature.

Rom 9:21  Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

Pro 16:4  The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

God is proving to mankind by personal experience and by numerous examples around us that every one of us are totally incapable of being good and in all actuality we are evil and need God's indwelling Spirit to make us right.

Psa 14:3  They are all gone aside; they are together become filthy; There is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Rom 3:11  There is none that understandeth, There is none that seeketh after God;
v. 12  They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable; There is none that doeth good, no, not, so much as one:

http://bible-truths.com/part5.htm ---------------------------------------

Scripture proves that God not only created evil, but that He, Himself, is responsible for it.
v
At times it is hard to emotionally deal with the evils of this world. But I thank God that it is HE and not Satan or man who controls evil. It is important to understand that God puts limitations on evil. He doesn't use it indiscriminately. Jeremiah 18:11 says: " ... I frame evil against you ... " This verse alone shows the boundaries and limitations that God Himself puts on evil.

Evil has no moral bias. God does not sin when He uses evil for His good purposes. Men sin when they do evil to other men. Evil [Heb. ha' = TO SMASH] is only a "sin" when it is used wrongly. God uses evil for good. The glorious culmination of God's plan will justify His use of evil a trillion times to the power of infinity!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rev 21:3  And I heard a great voice out of Heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.
v. 4  And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. And there will be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying out, nor will there be any more pain; for the first things passed away.
v. 5  And He sitting on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me, Write, for these words are true and faithful.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Craig

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Re: Deuteronomy 21:18-21?
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2011, 11:55:43 AM »

Quote
Girl spanked to death in the name of God

Tragic story, but I am angered that the news story uses the word "spanked".  This child was not "spanked" to death, it was beat to death.  Another example of the press trying to assign a different meaning to a word to then use it to make anyone who spanks their child an abuser.

Craig

PS I will not let this thread turn into a thread about the merits or not of spanking, to each his own.
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JohnMichael

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Re: Deuteronomy 21:18-21?
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2011, 02:45:10 PM »

Quote
Girl spanked to death in the name of God

Tragic story, but I am angered that the news story uses the word "spanked".  This child was not "spanked" to death, it was beat to death.  Another example of the press trying to assign a different meaning to a word to then use it to make anyone who spanks their child an abuser.

Craig

PS I will not let this thread turn into a thread about the merits or not of spanking, to each his own.

Good point, Craig. Spanking and Beating are two entirely different horses. That girl was tortured and beat to death.

Kat makes an excellent point though as well. Were it not for God's influence, we'd all be the same parents - as much as we'd like to deceive ourselves into thinking otherwise.

So much of man's blood has been spilled, and so many lives taken "in the name of God." I'm not even referring to the times that God actually commanded them to go kill people such as in the Old Testament. I'm referring to the Crusades, Jihads, etc. It really puts these verses into a new perspective.

2Sa 12:14  Only, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of Jehovah to blaspheme, this child born to you shall surely die.

Rom 2:24  For the name of God is blasphemed among the nations because of you, as it is written.

In Him,
John
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River

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Re: Deuteronomy 21:18-21?
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2011, 02:10:00 AM »


That is so disturbing, it is truly horrific to bear witness to something so incomprehensible. YET I truly believe that any of us are more than capable of equally vile acts, if God did not frame evil (Jer 18:11). All our carnal nature needs is a certain set of circumstances/causes to lead us into doing something just as despicable. If we do not believe that then we are kidding ourself. We are all initially made out of the same lump of carnal human nature.

Rom 9:21  Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

Pro 16:4  The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

God is proving to mankind by personal experience and by numerous examples around us that every one of us are totally incapable of being good and in all actuality we are evil and need God's indwelling Spirit to make us right.

Psa 14:3  They are all gone aside; they are together become filthy; There is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Rom 3:11  There is none that understandeth, There is none that seeketh after God;
v. 12  They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable; There is none that doeth good, no, not, so much as one:

http://bible-truths.com/part5.htm ---------------------------------------

Scripture proves that God not only created evil, but that He, Himself, is responsible for it.
v
At times it is hard to emotionally deal with the evils of this world. But I thank God that it is HE and not Satan or man who controls evil. It is important to understand that God puts limitations on evil. He doesn't use it indiscriminately. Jeremiah 18:11 says: " ... I frame evil against you ... " This verse alone shows the boundaries and limitations that God Himself puts on evil.

Evil has no moral bias. God does not sin when He uses evil for His good purposes. Men sin when they do evil to other men. Evil [Heb. ha' = TO SMASH] is only a "sin" when it is used wrongly. God uses evil for good. The glorious culmination of God's plan will justify His use of evil a trillion times to the power of infinity!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rev 21:3  And I heard a great voice out of Heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.
v. 4  And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. And there will be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying out, nor will there be any more pain; for the first things passed away.
v. 5  And He sitting on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me, Write, for these words are true and faithful.

mercy, peace and love
Kat



Great post Kat!
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Joel

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Re: Deuteronomy 21:18-21?
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2011, 06:53:43 PM »

The couple in the video could have benefited from a better understanding of the scriptures before taking such drastic action.
 
Proverbs 13:24 He who spares his rod [of discipline] hates his son, but he who loves him diligently disciplines and punishes him early.

Proverbs 19:18 Discipline your son while there is hope, but do not [ indulge your angry resentments by undue chastisements and ] set yourself to his ruin.

Proverbs 22:15 Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13 Withhold not discipline from the child, for if you strike and punish him with the [ reed-like ] rod, HE WILL NOT DIE.

Proverbs 29:15, 17 The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left undisciplined brings his mother shame.
Correct your son, and he will give you rest; yes, he will give delight to your heart.

Psalms 23:4 Yes, though I walk through the [ deep, sunless ] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for You are with me; Your rod [ to protect ] and Your staff [ to guide ], they comfort me.

Joel
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jeetkunejimi

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Re: Deuteronomy 21:18-21?
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2011, 08:36:52 PM »

Thanks to everyone for your input on my post, it helped a lot. May God bless us all as we keep learning His word, and may God keep Ray safe. Amen.
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