> General Discussions
Liar and murderer
dave:
Now I can see here in this verse Joh 8:44 Ye, are, of your father—the adversary, and, the covetings of your father, ye choose to be doing. He, was, a murderer, from the beginning, and, in the truth, he stood not; because truth is not in him: Whensoever he speaketh falsehood, of his own, he speaketh; because, false, he is, and, the father of it.
The adversary was a liar from the beginnnig Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman,—Ye shall not die,
Okay theres the lie, but were is the murder? Unless one looks at that old serpent being the cause of adam to be dying, you shall die, is a murderer or man slayer.
The only murder or man slayer I see is Gen 4:8 And saying is Cain to Abel, his brother, "Go will we to the field. And coming is it, at their coming to be in the field, rising is Cain against Abel, his brother, and killing him.
Are we saying then that it was the devil, the serpent got into Cain to make Cain murder/slay his brother?
I wonder about this stuff. It shows plainly the lie, but the murder is murky for me. Can somebody have any thoughts?
JohnMichael:
Hi Micah,
One can be a murderer without ever physically touching someone. That's the key. One has to stop looking always toward the physical for an answer.
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
Pro 26:24 He that hateth dissembleth with his lips, and layeth up deceit within him;
Pro 26:25 When he speaketh fair, believe him not: for there are seven abominations in his heart.
Pro 26:26 Whose hatred is covered by deceit, his wickedness shall be shewed before the whole congregation.
Pro 26:27 Whoso diggeth a pit shall fall therein: and he that rolleth a stone, it will return upon him.
Pro 26:28 A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin.
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
[I'm sure the Lord didn't limit this principle to just adultery.]
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
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Descriptions for Satan:
the serpent who tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:4 & Genesis 3:14)
Satan (1 Chronicles 21:1)
the adversary playing the role of prosecuting attorney in a heavenly court with God and the angels (Job 1:6 & Zechariah 3:1-2 & 1 Peter 5:8..)
as the devil (from the Greek "diabolos" which means "slanderer"), the tempter of Jesus (Matthew 4:1-3, Luke 4:2)
the prince of the demons, Beelzebub (Matthew 12:24, Mark 3:22, Luke 11:15)
unclean spirit (Matthew 12:43)
the evil one (Matthew 13:19 & 1 John 2:13)
a murderer and the father of lies (John 8:44)
the prince of this world (John 12:31 & 14:30 & 16:11)
a demon able to enter into a human body (John 13:27)
god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4)
Belial (2 Corinthians 6:15)
prince of the powers of the air, the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience (Ephesians 2:2)
power of darkness (Colossians 1:13)
an adversary, like a roaring lion who walks about seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8..)
the angel of the abyss, named Abaddon in Hebrew, Apollyon in Greek (Revelation 9:11) [Both mean Destroyer]
a great red dragon (Revelation 12:3 & 12:9 & 20:2)
the accuser of our brethren who accuses Christians before God day and night (Revelation 12:10)
the dragon, the old serpent (Revelation 20:2)
Would one say that Satan loves anything by looking at that list? He is the destroyer. He is carnal. He hates. What do the Scriptures say about hate? What is God really concerned with: the physical, or the heart?
In Him,
John
Samson:
--- Quote from: micah7:9 on August 18, 2011, 12:25:49 AM ---Now I can see here in this verse Joh 8:44 Ye, are, of your father—the adversary, and, the covetings of your father, ye choose to be doing. He, was, a murderer, from the beginning, and, in the truth, he stood not; because truth is not in him: Whensoever he speaketh falsehood, of his own, he speaketh; because, false, he is, and, the father of it.
The adversary was a liar from the beginnnig Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman,—Ye shall not die,
Okay theres the lie, but were is the murder? Unless one looks at that old serpent being the cause of adam to be dying, you shall die, is a murderer or man slayer.
The only murder or man slayer I see is Gen 4:8 And saying is Cain to Abel, his brother, "Go will we to the field. And coming is it, at their coming to be in the field, rising is Cain against Abel, his brother, and killing him.
Are we saying then that it was the devil, the serpent got into Cain to make Cain murder/slay his brother?
I wonder about this stuff. It shows plainly the lie, but the murder is murky for me. Can somebody have any thoughts?
--- End quote ---
Hi Micah,
Although, Satan didn't directly Murder Adam & Eve, His Lie or Deception lead to their Death, because God told them that the Day that they would eat of the fruit, they would die. They(Adam & Eve) didn't actually die that 24 day in which they ate the forbidden fruit, but the physical process of dying began the moment they ate the fruit & disobeyed God.
A True Statement from God: Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
A False Statement from the Serpent: Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
A Statement from the Serpent(Satan) that has Truth, but He(Satan) mixed some Truth with Deception, something We often witness from Our fellow Humans: Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Humans are supposed to learn about Good and Evil, but not the entire knowledge of it, at that very moment & We won't become partakers of Divine Nature being One with God right away. It's a process and certainly Adam & Eve would not be One with God in their Lifetime. Although, they did begin to learn about good & evil and to experience it for the rest of their lives.
Sometimes, when someone tells a lie or attempts to deceive someone else, somewhere down the line it can lead to a death.
If you break any of God's Commandments like Lying or Deception, Your guilty of All, including Murder. Satan was trying to deceive Eve, He gave Her a false witness by mixing some elements of truth with falsehood thereby causing them to disobey God culminating in their eventual death.
Kind Regards, Samson.
Kat:
Hi micah7:9,
--- Quote ---Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman,—Ye shall not die,
Okay theres the lie, but were is the murder?
--- End quote ---
http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html -------------------------------------
You are of your FATHER the DEVIL [the GREAT DRAGON, OLD SERPENT, the DEVIL, and SATAN {Hebrew for Adversary -- I Pet. 5:8} Rev. 12:9], and the lusts of your father ye will do... He was a murderer FROM THE BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth [from the beginning], because there is no truth in him [from the beginning]. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar [from the beginning], and the father [the beginner] of it" (John 8:44).
"Now the SERPENT was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD GOD had MADE..." (Gen. 3:1) God "made" this serpent which TALKED with Eve as an articulate, intelligent creature. Satan did not possess this serpent of the field, Satan was this serpent! Satan doesn’t possess snakes! Satan himself was CREATED A SERPENT. Even Paul acknowledges that it was "the SERPENT" that deluded Eve, and not some other creature possessing a snake (II Cor. 11:3).
v
Snakes do not "eat dust" but Satan dines on mankind "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour [Greek: (lit. or fig.) gulp entirely, swallow up] I Pet. 5:08). And he seeks to devour mankind who are "dust" of the earth ("...for dust thou art...." Gen. 3:19).
http://bible-truths.com/email12.htm --------------------------------
"And when the woman [1] SAW THAT THE TREE WAS GOOD FOR FOOD [lust of the flesh], and that it was [2] PLEASANT TO THE EYES [lust of the eyes], and a tree to be [3] DESIRED TO MAKE ONE WISE [pride of life], she TOOK [stole, disobeyed, lusted after the flesh, put an idol before God, worshiped her own presumed but false goodness, helped cause her husband to sin, hid themselves, LIED to God about it, tried to pass the buck and blame others for their sin, etc., etc., etc., and a dozen other sins] of the fruit thereof, and did eat..." (Gen. 3:6).
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Murder - the crime of unlawfully killing a person esp. with malice aforethought.
So Eve already had all the lusts of the world within her carnal flesh, like we all do, all she needed was a push in the right direction and that is where Satan came in. "The woman being DECIEVED" (1Ti 2:14), she was "dust" before the devourer/Satan and he had her for lunch, so to speak. This was the action as well as the "malice aforethought" that made Satan a "murderer from the beginning."
--- Quote ---The only murder or man slayer I see is Gen 4:8 And saying is Cain to Abel, his brother, "Go will we to the field. And coming is it, at their coming to be in the field, rising is Cain against Abel, his brother, and killing him.
Are we saying then that it was the devil, the serpent got into Cain to make Cain murder/slay his brother?
--- End quote ---
Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has desired you, that he may sift you as wheat.
Satan as a spiritual being that 'talks' to the minds of mankind, seducing and deceiving us with lies, so that he may sift/devour/destroy us and as with Eve he got Cain as well.
1John 3:12 We should not be like Cain, who was of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brother's righteous.
Eph 6:12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
We are in spiritual warfare and the world hasn't got a chance up against this great deciever, but we who have the Spirit indwelling can resist Satan and not be fearful of him.
1John 5:18 We have known that every one who hath been begotten of God doth not sin, but he who was begotten of God doth keep himself, and the evil one doth not touch him;
James 4:7 Therefore submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
dave:
First I was reading that very articial by Ray when this came to me. I had and am still considering "Although, Satan didn't directly Murder Adam & Eve,"
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer:
"One can be a murderer without ever physically touching someone. That's the key."
So, the lie is a direct and visible trait of the serpent, but the murderer part is a kind of, you have to have a spiritual understanding? Is that correct?
When Cain slew/killed,murdered, homicide,a manslayer: - murderer. That was out and out murder and Abel was dead[dead] then at that moment in time, not so with Adam/mankind.
Should your replies be the answer then I knew the answer all along; but it just seems to me(and I am not trying to kick up dust) that when Ray explains what he teaches its usually pretty complete, no lose ends. Here I am left with a revealing literal answer the lie " you wont die" and a murky spiritual answer for the "murder."
This only makes me to consider even more that when I read this word in Genesis that it is more of a parable
or even an allegory. Perhaps I will just stay with what you folks posted, that's where I was before I posted my question. Peace and Love :)
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