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[jong]

Isaiah 53
4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.

While Jesus was on earth, He only did the will of the Father, and healed ALL who came to Him. Before He left, He also commissioned His disciples to heal the sick & preach the gospel to all nations. Isaiah, the greatest OT prophet, boldly claims healing IS in the atonement of Christ.

So, is our physical healing in Christ according to the Will of God? If so, what are the necessary conditions for the Will of God to manifest in the physical healing of disease?




 

[patmokgoko]

Hi, the same OT prophet says that everything is in the will of God Isaiah 46 :10. I came to understand that healing may have different meaning than I thought, healing may also mean "salvation" then in that context we would say "by His stripes we got salvation" it may also mean to be made whole.It used to amaze me to think that it means  if you are in Christ you are healed and therefore will not be sick, but closely studying the ailments of Timothy and Paul, I got another understanding. Unbelief is a decease that needs to be, and at the right time all will be healed.Jesus said it is the deceased that needed the doctor.
Hope this helps a bit,be blessed.

[Kat]

Hi Jong,

So, is our physical healing in Christ according to the Will of God?

God is sovereign and wherefore everything is according to His will and that's goes for those healed or not healed as well. Sometimes there is another purpose being worked out that we do not know about, that does not allow for a person to be healed.

Here is an email that might help with this.

http://bible-truths.com/email5.htm#healing --------

                                          [Ray Replies]

When Jesus preached the Kingdom of God vast crowds of people came out to see and hear Him. Everywhere he went there were crowds following. One of the main reasons they did follow Him was that He healed thousands. Wherever He went the Scriptures tell us that He healed many. So clearly, God has healed many thousands of people.

Most people are more interested in whether God will heal them or not. People are looking for a magic formula that will guarantee their healing. We are instructed by James to call for the elders of the church to pray for healing. Not all are healed, however. In Paul's epistles we read of several ministers of the gospel who had health problems. Paul once told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake and his MANY ailments. I am sure Paul prayed for his healing, but he was not healed.

I have prayed for the sick and some where healed and others were not.  It is God's decision as to whether or not He will heal someone.  Sometimes there is a better purpose served in our not being healed.

Above all, DO PRAY, and do let your requests be made know to God with thanksgiving.   Praying for healing is not that much different from praying for anything. Sometimes God grants our desires and other times He does not.

I believe men like Benny Hinn to be charlatans. Many who have come up on stage professing their healing were shortly thereafter to be in the same state of disease or sickness as before.

Never stop praying just because all of your desires are not answered.  In due time God will reward us all.

Sincerely

Ray

[jong]

I know God is sovereign, and everything is according to His will. But it is clearly stated in the OT and NT that God's will is Divine Health. It is an Abrahamic right for His children to be healthy until the day we die or until the Lord returns.

Even Jesus in the Lord's prayer called the Father's will in Heaven down into Earth  ..."Thy kingdom come, Thy Will be done, On earth as it is in Heaven"....There is NO sickness in Heaven.

And Jesus did not 'pray' for the sick, He cast out demons and commanded sickness and disease to leave! And ALL who came to Him in faith were healed!

Psalm 103. A Psalm of David.
 1 Bless the LORD, O my soul; And all that is within me, bless His holy name!
 2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, And forget not all His benefits:
 3 Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases...

I believe the only 'condition' God wants is for us to have "faith as a mustard seed" Luke 17:6). Mustard seeds figure prominently in one of Christ's parables. There must be a reason why

[hummer]

[
I know God is sovereign, and everything is according to His will. But it is clearly stated in the OT and NT that God's will is Divine Health. It is an Abrahamic right for His children to be healthy until the day we die or until the Lord returns.

Please read every word that Kat presented in Ray's email and believe them. Your contradiction is dangerous and spiritually unhealthy. Teaching your ideas is not allowed on the form.

Skip






[/quote]

[Dave in Tenn]

It's a daunting task to come to believe ALL the scripture when we've been trained since spiritual babes to believe each of the scriptures, at best, and some of them at worst.  We even believe what scripture says about scripture.

   

[arion]

I believe the only 'condition' God wants is for us to have "faith as a mustard seed" Luke 17:6). Mustard seeds figure prominently in one of Christ's parables. There must be a reason why

It takes much time and the grace of God for us to come to an understanding of the scriptures.  Ray, without a doubt is the most godly man that I know who has been suffering for 3 years with terminal cancer.  Does he not have 'faith as a mustard seed'?  Indeed Christ himself was sickly quite often;

Luk 4:23  And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself; 

And also at times the disciples were sick and didn't receive healing at the time.

1Ti 5:23  Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Php 2:27  For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.

2Ti 4:20  Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.


And yet at other times....

Act 28:8  And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him.

Act 19:11-12  And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:  So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Act 5:16  There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

So what do we make of all of this.  These scriptures are all true and they all harmonize one with another.  The difference between the first set and the last set is simply the sovereignty of God.  It's simply all up to him.  We pray and the results and timing is up to God alone.  When I was in my old church we believed the health and wealth gospel but it was amazing how many believed this and were still sick.  Of course they felt beaten down and second class citizens as opposed to those who never got sick (like myself).  It was commonly said 'sickness doesn't glorify God' but I beg to differ.  The sickness itself may not glorify God but the way that one bears up under such circumstances brings great glory to the Father.  We need to look no further for that lesson than to look at how Ray has been able to bear up through these last few years. 

[Kat]

Another email.
http://bible-truths.com/email10.htm ---------------

                                                   [Ray Replies]

Many assume that the statements that Jesus made to his eleven apostles on the evening of His arrest, were a blanket statement to all believers to follow, for all time. This is not so.

Jesus did do many miracles through His apostles after His death and resurrection. He promised them the gift of the Holy Spirit (Comforter), which would give them faith and power to spread His gospel message.

This came true fifty days later on the Day of Pentecost. The apostles were given the gift of tongues so that they could even speak in foreign languages which none of them had ever studied. They were able to heal the sick. And they even RAISED THE DEAD. Peter and Paul both RAISED THE DEAD.

These special miracle gifts did not follow all generations of the church. Even later in the ministry of the apostles, God began to withdraw these gifts. No one was raised from the dead in their later ministry. Paul said that "tongues would cease" in I Cor. 13. Only "faith, hope [expectation] and charity [love]" were to "NOW remain...."  Some of Paul best friends and servants in spreading the gospel were sick and not healed. Paul told his dear friend Timothy, to "take a little wine for thy stomach's sake, and thine OFT [MANY] INFIRMITIES. God did NOT heal them. Do we think that Paul did not even ask?

Many in the charismatic church try to make a carnival exhibition of such gifts, but I am afraid all they do is deceive.

However, with that said, does God no longer perform miracles or healings? Yes, He does. I have seen and experienced them. Does He always heal? Does He always alleviate our problems and trials? NO. Why should we pray for God to TAKE AWAY all the things that are absolutely NECESSARY FOR OUR FAITH AND PERFECTION?

Don't neglect to ask God for EVERYTHING you feel you should have. But don't be disappointed if God allows you to CONTINUE IN YOUR TRIALS. Sometimes He removes certain trials after a period of time. We do not know when and how or even if God will do this that or the other thing, so we keep praying.  I ask for STRENGTH AND FAITH to face my trials and OVERCOME my flesh. I no longer pray for God to make me HEALTHY, WEALTHY AND WISE, with absolutely no price to pay for such privileges.

This site is an answer to prayer. My understanding of the Scriptures is an answer to prayer. Everything I have is an answer to prayer. I pray for others and many times, GOD ANSWERS MY PRAYERS! But I do NOT always heal the sick through my prayers, I do not make people wealthy through my prayers, and I have NEVER raised the dead through my prayers. So don't stop praying!! And ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, thank God for all that you have.

And then, don't WORRY about anything. Phil. 4:6 is a terrible translation in the KJV. Instead of "Be careful in nothing..." it should read:

"DON'T WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING..."

God be with you,

Ray

[Rene]

I know God is sovereign, and everything is according to His will. But it is clearly stated in the OT and NT that God's will is Divine Health. It is an Abrahamic right for His children to be healthy until the day we die or until the Lord returns.

Jong,

Do you know anyone who is "physically" healthy their entire life on this earth?  That is not God's will during this age.

The "true" healing has to do with spiritual healing.  Don't you get that?

1 Peter 2:24-25: “and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. 25 For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.”

René

[G. Driggs]

I know God is sovereign, and everything is according to His will. But it is clearly stated in the OT and NT that God's will is Divine Health. It is an Abrahamic right for His children to be healthy until the day we die or until the Lord returns.

Even Jesus in the Lord's prayer called the Father's will in Heaven down into Earth  ..."Thy kingdom come, Thy Will be done, On earth as it is in Heaven"....There is NO sickness in Heaven.

And Jesus did not 'pray' for the sick, He cast out demons and commanded sickness and disease to leave! And ALL who came to Him in faith were healed!

Psalm 103. A Psalm of David.
 1 Bless the LORD, O my soul; And all that is within me, bless His holy name!
 2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, And forget not all His benefits:
 3 Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases...

I believe the only 'condition' God wants is for us to have "faith as a mustard seed" Luke 17:6). Mustard seeds figure prominently in one of Christ's parables. There must be a reason why

Totally agree Jong, and I hope you can agree God's Will for Divine Health in the OT, Jesus healing the physically sick, raising the dead, are all types/shadows and parables that point to spiritual life and health, which is more important and greater than all that.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6142.0.html

GREATER WORKS

But just like when God said to Israel, I’m choosing you, it was a shadow.  Now Christ came and we say, at last now we have the real thing.  That was right, He was the real thing.  He was the Seed! 

But part of this gospel involves judging, right.  Peter said it involves judging the quick and the dead.  Did Jesus Christ judge the quick and the dead when He was here?  Some of this remains and has yet to a fulfillment and it has to.  I will tell you why it has to.  Jesus Christ told His disciples…

John 14:12  Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes on Me, the works that I do he shall do also, and greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father.

He healed the sick, gave vision to the blind, caused the lame to walk, caused the dead to live…  you’re going to do greater things than that.  Oh really?  And what might that be Lord? 

I’ve had people ask me numerous times, ‘Ray can you walk on water, have you raised the dead, have you…?’  As a matter of fact I have.  Which is greater, to raise somebody back to physical life, so that they can physically die again or to raise someone who is spiritually dead to spiritual life?  God is doing greater things through the called, chosen, Elect few of His church, than He did in His own ministry, when He fed 5000, walked on the water, calmed the storm, healed the sick and raised the dead.  He said we would do… “greater things,” they are greater.  They are not greater if you’ve got a carnal mind, they are not greater then, it sounds like foolishness.  That’s what it will sound like to you, unless you have the spiritual mind to see it. 
------------

Peace,

G.Driggs
 

[Joel]

Hi Jong
God is always on time with what he intends to do.
Ecclesiastes 3:3
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up.
Jesus did the things he did, just as planned before hand, and he read as a wittiness to this in Luke 4:18-19 fom Isaiah 61:1-2
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and the recovering of sight to the blind, and to set at liberty them that are bruised.
 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
There are a lot of people in the Church world that need delivering from doctrines of devils, more than anything these days. That really makes a person better both physically, and Spiritually I think.
Paul spoke of this in 1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
John writes in 3 John 2
Beloved I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

I don't like sickness any more than anyone else, but it does have it's place in our growth and development, and I have learned a lot through the things I myself have suffered.
I do thank the Lord for the healthy days though.

Joel

[stanstillwhite]

We see in 1 Co 11 that sometimes we bring sickness on ourselves.

1Co 11:29  For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Co 11:30  For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

I'm not saying all sickness is a chastisement from God, but when I get sick the first thing I do before asking God to heal me is examine myself.  I ask God is I have inadvertently brought something on myself.  I also see in scripture where faith and attitude play a part even when Jesus was the healer:

Mat 13:58  And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

I also think we need to remember that this body was not meant to be permanent. It wares out.  Has anyone else noticed that nobody dies from 'natural causes' any more?  We are not to be to comfortable in this skin. 

[octoberose]

 John 9- As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. 4As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

Isn't being born blind the same as having a sickness? If not exactly the same (as mentioned already, our behavior can affect our health) it is our bodies failing us. If we are never ill, we would be without understanding of those who are. If we never suffer, we would have no idea at all what others suffer. Right now my husband has what looks like a growth on his adrenal gland. We'll know more next week after the MRI. Am I liking this? Not a bit. But who do I go to? Only the Lord can heal. We are doing everything we know to do and he's in the care of an alternative doctor at the moment, but I truly believe this is a journey God has set for us right now. There are so many ways for the "work of  God to be displayed in his life" because of this.
 The rest of the verse in John, "night is coming (when Jesus leaves I'm thinking) when no one can work." If it still is applicable to this thread, I wonder what you all think about the "no one can work" part of the verse?  Also, Jesus is going from the man born blind and ending with Him being the light of the world. I bet there's a lot there I'm not even seeing.