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Luke 23:34 - Ray's comments added, last post
stanstillwhite:
I surely see your point, but I took John to mean that this is Gods plan and He is doing it according to how He wants.
Rom 8:20 Meanwhile, creation is confused, but not because it wants to be confused. God made it this way in the hope
Rom 8:21 that creation would be set free from decay and would share in the glorious freedom of his children.(CEV)
When you look at the BIG Picture, All really is of God. That's what I perceived John to mean.
Loven,
Stan
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: Marky Mark on August 23, 2011, 10:47:06 AM ---
--- Quote ---"We are all guilty of crucifying Jesus because of our sins." G Driggs
--- End quote ---
--- Quote --- I do not agree with that statement. John from Kentucky
--- End quote ---
George is right John. We have all been guilty of crucifying Jesus.You, me, and every human being that has ever lived.The Father by design caused to happen the death of our Lord but that does not mean that we all individually did not have part in it.
Just who do you think are the kings of the earth and the rulers gathered against the Lord? If we are to live by every word then that would leave no one out. If you,me,or anyone[all] cannot see that we too are as guilty within our hearts and minds of crucifying Jesus,because of our very own carnal ways of living, then, our understanding of things Spiritual are yet in its infancy.
According to Scripture there are only two groups of mankind on the entire earth. These two groups would be the gentiles,and the people of Israel.It then would be by a necessity of default that all peoples of all times would have to fall into either group. According to Acts 4:26-27, if we look with Spiritual eyes, we can come to see that we as humans are all guilty of murdering Christ by going against His Truths.
Act 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord,and against his Christ.
Act 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
By way of partaking into the babylonian system of things we surely kill our Lord by not living His very words of Spirit and Truth. Not only was the apostle Paul a chief of sinners but all of us fall into that condition if we do not come to see that by sinning against the Word of God makes us just as guilty of crucifying Jesus[the Truth and the Way] as the people that were there in the flesh.
Jesus died in order to save sinners of whom I see, with Spiritual eyes, to be all people of all times that go against His very words.If that is not killing Him, then I do not what is. All people are guilty of Jesus' death or we would have no need for a Savior.When we don't see ourselves as chief of sinners within our hearts and minds,just as Paul did,we then fall short,miss the mark,of the High calling,to the Glory of God.
1Ti 1:15 Faithful, the saying! and, of all acceptance, worthy,—that, Christ Jesus, came into the world, sinners, to save: of whom, the chief, am, I;—
Hope this helps some.
Peace...Mark
--- End quote ---
Babylonian church talk, Mark, Babylonian church talk.
The Beast within would just love to think it could kill the Son of God by its free will actions.
You left off Acts 4:28. Why did you do that? It states that it was the Father's Hand and Counsel that determined what happened to Jesus.
Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---You left off Acts 4:28. Why did you do that? It states that it was the Father's Hand and Counsel that determined what happened to Jesus.
--- End quote ---
John,read all my words. I never stated that the Father was not responsible for Christ's death.
--- Quote ---The Father by design caused to happen the death of our Lord... Mark
--- End quote ---
So then are you saying that you are free from any sin concerning the death of Jesus?
When you live outside the Word of God would you not say that would be the same as killing him,Spiritualy speaking?
John from Kentucky:
Well, well, well. Maybe old Tischendorf and the Sinaiticus manuscript were right after all? Maybe Luke 23:34 is spurious. Why would Jesus ask the Father to forgive the evil men who killed Him when Jesus knew it was the Father behind it all?
In John 19:11, Jesus told Pilate, "You could have no power at all against me unless it had been given you from above..."
2nd Scripture, Acts 4:28, speaking about the Father in reference to those He used to kill Jesus, "to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur." (NASB)
Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little.
dave:
Now thats good! :)
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