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Luke 23:34 - Ray's comments added, last post
G. Driggs:
Here is one i always thought might be a possible witness to that verse in Luke.
Act 3:17 "And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers.
Act 3:18 But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ should suffer, he thus fulfilled.
G.Driggs
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: G. Driggs on August 20, 2011, 10:48:20 PM ---Here is one i always thought might be a possible witness to that verse in Luke.
Act 3:17 "And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers.
Act 3:18 But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ should suffer, he thus fulfilled.
G.Driggs
--- End quote ---
Ray uses this verse to explain that they (at least the 'rulers') were not completely acting in ignorance.
Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
Paul himself was a Pharisee before and is likely included in Nicodemus' "...WE KNOW...", I'm guessing.
Of course their 'knowledge' was at best incomplete--Jesus was far more than a teacher come from God--but were they 'innocent'?
Paul 'stood by' the stoning of Stephen (Acts 22:20) thinking he was doing the RIGHT thing. He also said he was 'ignorant' during the time he was persecuting the church, but I don't think he thought of himself as innocent.
Just some loose threads of thought.
dave:
"Paul himself was a Pharisee before and is likely included in Nicodemus' "...WE KNOW...", I'm guessing."
I dont believe we have to guess, he must have been there, it was before Stephen's stoning.
That is a very good reading of all the words. :)
G. Driggs:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on August 21, 2011, 03:51:38 PM ---
--- Quote from: G. Driggs on August 20, 2011, 10:48:20 PM ---Here is one i always thought might be a possible witness to that verse in Luke.
Act 3:17 "And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers.
Act 3:18 But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ should suffer, he thus fulfilled.
G.Driggs
--- End quote ---
Ray uses this verse to explain that they (at least the 'rulers') were not completely acting in ignorance.
Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
Paul himself was a Pharisee before and is likely included in Nicodemus' "...WE KNOW...", I'm guessing.
Of course their 'knowledge' was at best incomplete--Jesus was far more than a teacher come from God--but were they 'innocent'?
Paul 'stood by' the stoning of Stephen (Acts 22:20) thinking he was doing the RIGHT thing. He also said he was 'ignorant' during the time he was persecuting the church, but I don't think he thought of himself as innocent.
Just some loose threads of thought.
--- End quote ---
I agree Dave. They knew who He was (just like the Pharisees of our day know who He is), but they did not fully comprehend what they were doing.
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, which God has hidden, predetermining it before the world for our glory;
1Co 2:8 which none of the rulers of this world knew (for if they had known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory).
We are all guilty of crucifying Jesus because of our sins. No excuses, no one is innocent.
G.Driggs
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: G. Driggs on August 22, 2011, 02:04:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on August 21, 2011, 03:51:38 PM ---
--- Quote from: G. Driggs on August 20, 2011, 10:48:20 PM ---Here is one i always thought might be a possible witness to that verse in Luke.
Act 3:17 "And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers.
Act 3:18 But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ should suffer, he thus fulfilled.
G.Driggs
--- End quote ---
Ray uses this verse to explain that they (at least the 'rulers') were not completely acting in ignorance.
Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
Paul himself was a Pharisee before and is likely included in Nicodemus' "...WE KNOW...", I'm guessing.
Of course their 'knowledge' was at best incomplete--Jesus was far more than a teacher come from God--but were they 'innocent'?
Paul 'stood by' the stoning of Stephen (Acts 22:20) thinking he was doing the RIGHT thing. He also said he was 'ignorant' during the time he was persecuting the church, but I don't think he thought of himself as innocent.
Just some loose threads of thought.
--- End quote ---
I agree Dave. They knew who He was (just like the Pharisees of our day know who He is), but they did not fully comprehend what they were doing.
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, which God has hidden, predetermining it before the world for our glory;
1Co 2:8 which none of the rulers of this world knew (for if they had known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory).
We are all guilty of crucifying Jesus because of our sins. No excuses, no one is innocent.
G.Driggs
--- End quote ---
"We are all guilty of crucifying Jesus because of our sins." I do not agree with that statement. Christian ministers and priests also make that statement, and I have found them all to be false teachers.
God the Father crucified and killed Jesus. Only the Great God had the power to kill the Son of God.
We humans have an exceedingly weak heart. We all have sinned, willingly. We are not innocent. There is no good in us. We cannot even take the next breath when God has decided we have had our last breath. We are dust.
We did not have the power to kill our Creator, the Son of God. God the Father is responsible for that just like He is responsible for everything that has ever been.
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