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[JohnMichael]

This may seem like a very simple question. In Sunday School, in Babylon, I remember being taught that if we prayed in our minds, Satan couldn't "hear" the prayer. A prayer would be solely between the supplicant and God. With everything else that we've been shown to be false that is taught by Babylon, it has called into question this teaching.

Is there any Scripture or Scriptural indication that Satan can or cannot read minds? Or is he simply a good psychologist/observer? He has had thousands of years to study mankind.

However, most demonic attacks are mental. There are instances of physical attacks (people being picked up by unseen beings and being thrown against walls, feeling like "something" is pinning a person down, etc.). If demonic attacks are mental in the majority of happenings, is that an indication of being able to read the mind?

Again, I know this is a seemingly simple question, but it was taught by Babylon that Satan could not, so this teaching has come into question for trial in the Light of God's Word. Does anyone know of any Scriptures that may help in answering this question?

In Him,
John

[Rene]

Hi John Michael,

When I was a JW, I also remember being taught something similar, i.e., Satan can not hear your thoughts.

This may not be an exact answer to your question, but I think it gives us a better understanding of how Satan operates.  This is taken from Part 5 of the "Lake of Fire" series.

René


http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html

SATAN WAS CAST OUT INTO THE EARTH

Satan is a carnal-minded spirit. That may sound like a contradiction of terms, but I assure you that it is not. Carnal means fleshly, material, temporal. Satan deals with the flesh, material things, and temporal gratification. Satan is a spirit who thinks like a carnal-minded man. Although spirit by nature, Satan eats "dust."

Why do you suppose we read this in Matt. 16:23:

"But He turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, SATAN!"?

Because Satan was looking for lunch. And Peter was going to be Satan’s lunch! Satan dines on the "dust" of man’s carnality (which is enmity against God.) In Luke 22:31 we read this:

"And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has desired to have you [laid claim on you], that he may sift you as wheat."
Satan was sifting Simon out of the chaff as a morsel of fine food to make a meal of him! Only Jesus could have seen it coming and prevented it. How often has Satan made a fine dinner of your carnal mind?

Satan’s domain is the carnal mind, the flesh, the "dust" of this earth.

[River]

This subject of mental health is of great importance to me. And all the more since religion likes to play on such matters as this. First you have to understand that the mental is physical, making them seperate is not right. Even though I know what you mean. The brain is an organ and like any other organ if it is damaged or sick etc. it doesn't function properly and produces symptoms. It is all to easy to slap a person with mental illness or problems with the mind as demon afflicted or whatever other evil or bad ideas attached to it. If someone has a heart condition why isn't that person considered demomic influenced as well? Fear and ignorance is still strong with this subject and the churches love to run with this subject. Just wanted to let that be known. On your question, I was told the same thing from churches. And I was told by many of them also that persons of a different personality which they did not like or approve of were demonic influenced. But it is easy to see by the scriptures that the very well dressed and popular people and rulers and leaders of government and churches, and lets not forget they were widely accepted, they were getting major toungue lashing from Jesus. These were people considered "sane" and "normal" and yet they murdered, lied, etc.

[Mbongiseni]

Hi all
This couldn't be ansered precisely as Rene and Rivers have done!
Its one of the things that used to worry me that the devil as a spirit could possibly know what one is thinking even if one didn't announciate.I used to try hard to try and conceal my thinkings but when I started reading Ray's articles I realised that my fears had no founding.Its true the devil relies entirely on his experience with mankiind rather than penetrating our minds.
Thanks for raising it up to remind people like me that this creature is only carnally minded like most of us humans.

Mbongiseni

[Marky Mark]

The brain is an organ and like any other organ if it is damaged or sick etc. it doesn't function properly and produces symptoms. It is all to easy to slap a person with mental illness or problems with the mind as demon afflicted or whatever other evil or bad ideas attached to it. If someone has a heart condition why isn't that person considered demomic influenced as well? Fear and ignorance is still strong with this subject

River

If all things are of God [which Scripture teaches] then at what point in our lives do we say that it is not of God? Our mind and body are the conduit in which God works all that needs to be done in our lives,under His sovereign rule and will, for our own humility. Disease, whether it be of a mental or of a physical condition is still,none the less,all of God.To deny His sovereignty over your life is to deny His Godly authority in your life.

Our lives were predestinated according to His plan and purpose in each and every one of us, no matter what our physical or mental health experience turns out to be. After all, He created evil so that we can and will be humbled by it.

Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

 All through Scripture God does not deny the evil that He sends to us through an evil spiritual realm.Just because that evil shows up in some sort of a negative health condition does not take away His cause for it in our lives.When we set our own thoughts aside for His Truth, we can then see that what God is doing in our lives is indeed of Him, and not something considered genetic or bad luck,but rather,His own counsel.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Pro 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

1 Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

 Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Mat 28:18  And Jesus, coming near, spake unto them, saying—All authority, in heaven and on earth, hath been given unto me;

Joh 9:3  Jesus answered—Neither, this man, sinned nor his parents; but…that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Eph 6:12  Because our struggle is not against blood and flesh, but, against the principalities, against the authorities, against the world-holders, of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenlies.

1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


I have Faith that what my Lord in heaven is doing in my life is absolutely from Him, and not something left to chance.

Isa 64:8 And now, Yahweh, You are our Father. And we are the clay. You are our Former, and the doing of Your hand are we all."

Jer 18:6  O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.



Peace...Mark

[mharrell08]

The brain is an organ and like any other organ if it is damaged or sick etc. it doesn't function properly and produces symptoms. It is all to easy to slap a person with mental illness or problems with the mind as demon afflicted or whatever other evil or bad ideas attached to it. If someone has a heart condition why isn't that person considered demomic influenced as well? Fear and ignorance is still strong with this subject

River

If all things are of God [which Scripture teaches] then at what point in our lives do we say that it is not of God? Our mind and body are the conduit in which God works all that needs to be done in our lives,under His sovereign rule and will, for our own humility. Disease, whether it be of a mental or of a physical condition is still,none the less,all of God.To deny His sovereignty over your life is to deny His Godly authority in your life.

I can already tell I'm going to regret this, but here goes...


Mark, you and JFK are really missing the point of River's comments. Look at your comments in bold. That's the point River is making...a mental disease should also be considered a physical condition, not an alternative. When you say 'a mental OR physical condition'...as if they are separate. River's point is that they are the same. Whether you agree with him or not on that subject is an issue that is outside the forum.

River doesn't even mention God's Sovereignty nor diminishes it in any way. He simply questions why mental illness is considered demonic 'by the church' and not other ailments such as a heart condition, when they are both physical ailments. Again, nothing to do with questioning God's sovereignty from what I read.


Marques

[JohnMichael]

I think I may need to clarify. When I say "mental," I am not referring to the brain. There is a difference between the mind and the brain. I am also not referring to mental illnesses such as bi-polar, schizophrenia, or the like. The mind (carnal mind/spiritual mind) is what I was referring to.

It seems like this topic is spiraling, but oh well.

In Him,
John

[DougE6]

Yes Marky Mark; great post.  Additionally, To me, one of the most wonderful parts of Gods sovereignity, which you so aptly described above, is the fact that in all of these workings of God, WE ARE ALWAYS VOLUNTEERS. God does not FORCE us to do His counsel even as He sends spiritual forces in our direction. We are always volunteers. So even, when we do evil, it always remains true, that OUR hearts are involved. Therefore, we can be held accountable, in the midst of His sovereignity. Truely a magnificent balance.

So it follows that if I cannot be a willing volunteer to commit murder, then I will not commit a murder. Only God knows to what extent he would need to arrange circumstances for me to do such a sin. Not for a moment is God abandoning His sovereignity in that statement; because His plans for that one who cannot commit murder does not include murder.  But if I am a past hater or murderer,  if I NOW see my heart improving so murderous thoughts and temptations do not occur, then I can rejoice in my overcoming of that sin.  I can feel pretty sure that I WILL not commit that sin. That sin will be behind me (obviously God willing, in everything)

So I feel in light of everything you said, a most important additional consideration, is that we should continually judge our hearts.  If we find we are failing or falling in areas, then we should KNOW that our hearts are not right, in those areas, and seek God to change our heart. Repent of these sins. Deeply.  As God THEN changes our hearts, invariably His plans for us WILL NOT include our falling to various evils and temptation we fell to earlier. It goes hand in hand. EVEN As God does the work, we must put in the effort, and He will respond by changing out hearts. Gods total sovereignity is NEVER an excuse not to put in effort.

Doug

PS where does Marky Mark come from? I have always wondered about your avatar name.

[DougE6]

Hi John from Kentucky
 I wonder how many times Ray has said we are volunteers when committing sins. That God does not force us. 50? 100? I should check and see. I am curious. I know Ray and myself respect this verse, do you?

 Jas 1:13  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14  But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Jas 1:15  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Now does God wait for us to volunteer to come to Him? Of course not. Was my writing that opaque to you? Do you really think I think that God waits for us to volunteer to come to Him? The Apostle Paul and Jonah, are great examples of how God does complel us to righteousness. If you really believe I think God waits for us to volunteer to COME to HIM  let me make it it CLEAR...GOD DOES USE GREAT COMPELLING FORCE ON US TO BRING US TO HIM. OK?

You just think it is more spiritual to think that God does the evil when horrendous personal evils are committed. Every word I wrote in my prior post I will stand by, when it speaks of how God runs his creation concerning evil. Not only does God send evil spirits to entice as Marky wrote cause God will not tempt anyone directly, he also does it in ways that are beyond your reasoning. God asked for volunteer spirits to tempt Ahab to his doom in Kings, to be lying spirits in the propherts mouths. God did not order Satan directly in Job, he goaded Satan. And Satan went for it, as God knew He would. Apparently those minor subtleties are lost on you. Your heart is lazy and lustful you JUST have said it yourself, yesterday, in a recent post. You will NOT try, at least from any words I have EVER seen you write, to struggle against sin. You are content just to sit back and say, well if I have this impulse, I might as well lust for this married women, because apparently God hasn't decided to change me yet, so I might as well enjoy it. I know you pulled the post, just a day or so ago, but you said those very words. So we are to believe that your understanding of the sovereignity of God is correct when you say such things as that? God forbid.

Heb 12:3  For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Heb 12:4  Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

How much have you strived against sin? Have you shed any blood in your struggle to be righteous, whether literal or metaphorical? Or do you hide behind your understanding of Gods sovereignity, so you can have a heart full of lusts and whatever, but it is all fine, in your eyes, cause everything is of God?  Is that what the understanding of Gods sovereignity is supposed to do? EXCUSE your laziness and lust?

[Joel]

Hi John,
Matthew 6:6 comes to mind concerning your post.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

This verse seems to indicate that we can have a one on one time with the Father, and no one, or no spirit can hear or see what we are doing in the Spirit, unless God should reveal it to them, and the them not being the enemy, because it is in secret.

Jesus went into the wilderness, and it was after the forty days and forty nights were over, that the devil tempted him. I don't see the tempter being able to interfear during the 40 days and nights, only afterwards.

I don't know of any scripture for Satan being able to read our minds, or hear our prayers, our words and our actions are easily read.

Joel

[DougE6]

Yes Let God Judge between me and Thee

You claim that your understanding of Gods sovereignty puts everything, even your lusts and evil acts, under the direct acts of God. You think you are righteous in claiming this because you think this is demonstrating TOTAL submission to God. So you think you are on the way to true spiritual growth because you are serving no idols, in your mind.

Really? No idols?  God rules your heart? Our carnal passions and desires are idols, if you are following them you are NOT serving God, you are already serving idols. Serving God means you have righteousness within.  Can you not see that you are substituting an idol for God, and by saying any and all impulses are from Him you can make your carnal mind your God, contrary to what you claim?

What God, John form Kentucky? What God are you bowing to? Where are the posts from you telling of your love of righteousness? How much you hate the wickedness in yourself? How you are struggling to be like God? I have not seen one.

Your idea is to be completely PASSIVE to any and all impulses; and then to serve your carnal passions, because you believe your carnal passions are from God.  So you don't even try to resist because everything is from God . So you are NOT serving the GOD you claim to be in your bowing down to His sovereignty.  You are bowing down to your carnal mind, and yet claiming it is bowing to God. That is how I see it. Sorry.

yes, Let God judge between you and me. Let Him make you righteous and give you a thirst for righteousness, with no more posts about how much you enjoy or enjoyed sin...then I will believe that you are serving the Real God.

Doug

[mmijares]

It goes hand in hand. EVEN As God does the work, we must put in the effort, and He will respond by changing out hearts. Gods total sovereignity is NEVER an excuse not to put in effort.

Hi DougE6

As far as I what I have understood from Ray's article regarding God's rest (sabbath), your statement is not so.  IT IS God who is putting the effort - ALL the effort to do good.  And for this very reason, we enter to His rest.  All the good things we do (INCLUDING the very effort of doing it) are God's doing.  It only "feels" like we did or exerted an effort to do it (good deed) but ALL credit belongs to Him.

Truly acknowledging God that it is HE Who works in us BOTH TO WILL (put or exert an effort) AND TO DO of His good pleasure is entering His true rest.

[DougE6]

mmijares
Here is a post form a recent thread, and Rays Direct response...
THE POST...
None of us are saying that good works are not needed.  All good comes from God.  The nub of the matter is who gets credit for the good works?
If we think, in our heart, that the good works come from us, that repentance comes from us, that our knowledge comes from us, that our faith comes from us, then we are God in the temple of our heart.  The Beast lives in our heart.
On the other hand, when we are baptized with the Spirit, when Jesus lives within us, then the Beast has been killed, and we do those things that Jesus does.  We think like Jesus and we do the works of Jesus.  Through this Spirit we are subject to the Kingdom of God.  God is sovereign and rules within us.
Therefore, since it is through the influence of the Spirit of Jesus (the same Spirit as His Father) that we do good works, then God gets all the credit for the good works that we do.  God is sovereign in all things.  All the credit, all the glory goes to God.

RAYS DIRECT RESPONSE....

RAYS' COMMENT:  Actually a great deal of credit does go to those who have good works: 
2Ti 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and PROFITABLE UNTO MEN. 

Tabitha was raised from the dead by Peter.  Do we not think that maybe she was granted this incredible miralce because she was 'FULL of good works?"

Act 9:36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and alms deeds which she did.

We will in fact be reward for OUR good works even though they are inspired from God.

God be with you all,

Ray

[Stacey]

John Michael, seems your thread has turned into yet another back and forth between JFK and Doug. As if we needed another one of those.

I don't know if Satan can read minds. I suppose if the Father enabled him to do so then he can.

I don't understand how any man or woman who has ever worked a good days labor would have a problem understanding that it was they who put the effort in to do so. Sure, the Father enabled them to do it and ultimately gets all the credit but yet they themselves did put the effort into the job at hand. Surely no one would think that Jesus did not have to put in effort to carry out what He did. He had no problem giving the Father credit but yet He put in the effort to carry out the work.  

[onelovedread]

Seems to me that some of us are fooling ourselves into thinking we understand when we really don't. Surely both sides can't be correct.

[GaryK]

Oh, I'm sure JohnMichael was probably well satisfied with Rene's answer.  It buttoned it up pretty good.  I know I was at the reminding of it.

But could someone.............and I hate to break the trend, yet again.............but can someone remind me just what are 'good works', scripturally speaking of course?

[DougE6]

Hi  gk. I did a quick search and found 19 (nineteen) verses admonishing us to good works or explaining them. I am glad you asked that question, reading these verses was an encouragement to me to pursue good works. :-)



Mat 5:15  Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16  Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Joh 10:32  Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

Act 9:36  Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.

Rom 13:3  For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Eph 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1Ti 2:10  But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

1Ti 5:10  Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

1Ti 5:25  Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.

1Ti 6:18  That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1Ti 6:19  Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Ti 3:17  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Tit 1:16  They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

t 2:7  In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
Tit 2:8  Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

Tit 2:14  Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works

Tit 3:8  This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Tit 3:14  And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Heb 10:24  And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

1Pe 2:12  Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

[Dave in Tenn]

Gary, I think the emphasis should be taken off WORKS and put onto GOOD.  Every breath we take, every thought we have, every deed we do is a WORK.  There isn't a man alive (from the best to the worst) who doesn't work every waking (and sleeping) moment of his life.  The judgement is on man acording to his works--whether they be GOOD or not good.

Sorry, but I don't know of a better 'teacher' than Jesus Christ to explain to us what works are GOOD and what works are BAD.  Some works are rewarded in Heaven.  Some works earn their reward now.  He makes it very clear which is which, though it may take a long, long time for us to have a life full of GOOD works. 

We have a trustworthy teacher in Ray, though none of these truths fit on a bumpersticker or can be throughly explained in one or two articles.  I know that Ray works, but I also believe Ray understands GOOD works, and knows WHAT works as well.   

     

 

[GaryK]

Hi Doug and Dave, and thanks.   Would you believe I actually had a theory to go along with the good works stuff but, well, since Dave says emphasis should really be on ‘good’, and that guy Ray’s statement of works “even though they are inspired from God.”, and Dave's words “there isn’t a man alive who doesn’t work every waking (and sleeping) moment........that sort of blew it for my point.   Way to go Dave.   

No, don’t ask me for it now, I don’t remember.   Besides, I lost my train of thought over Ephesians 2:10.

The only thing you did with the “there isn’t a man alive who doesn’t work every waking (and sleeping) moment” was to remind me there’s a real thin line of separation, under another’s direct control, between me/you, another believer and the guy serving a death row sentence for murder, or the gutter wino sleeping it off in the box, or between the gutter wino and the rich man in the limo, or between the rich man in the limo…….well, anyway.    Boy, that Jesus sure is a stickler for details when he frames evil, no? 

Oh well.   As Rosanne Rosannadanna would say, “it just goes to show you, it's always something--if it ain't one thing, it's another."         “Never mind”.

Carry on boys.

[mmijares]

mmijares
Here is a post form a recent thread, and Rays Direct response...
THE POST...
None of us are saying that good works are not needed.  All good comes from God.  The nub of the matter is who gets credit for the good works?
If we think, in our heart, that the good works come from us, that repentance comes from us, that our knowledge comes from us, that our faith comes from us, then we are God in the temple of our heart.  The Beast lives in our heart.
On the other hand, when we are baptized with the Spirit, when Jesus lives within us, then the Beast has been killed, and we do those things that Jesus does.  We think like Jesus and we do the works of Jesus.  Through this Spirit we are subject to the Kingdom of God.  God is sovereign and rules within us.
Therefore, since it is through the influence of the Spirit of Jesus (the same Spirit as His Father) that we do good works, then God gets all the credit for the good works that we do.  God is sovereign in all things.  All the credit, all the glory goes to God.

RAYS DIRECT RESPONSE....

RAYS' COMMENT:  Actually a great deal of credit does go to those who have good works: 
2Ti 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and PROFITABLE UNTO MEN. 

Tabitha was raised from the dead by Peter.  Do we not think that maybe she was granted this incredible miralce because she was 'FULL of good works?"

Act 9:36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and alms deeds which she did.

We will in fact be reward for OUR good works even though they are inspired from God.

God be with you all,

Ray

Ray's response did not actually negate the fact that good works (and the very effort of doing them) are from God although he elaborated that the person whom God chooses to bear good fruit is rewarded.  Of course we are rewarded!  It is just the same of being punished or corrected if we did wrongly.  It is God's way of making us learn what good and what are not.  And we all know this very well.

Ray's statement of "Actually a great deal of credit does go to those who have good works." should be regarded as relative and not an absolute statement.  God gives us credit for performing good works just the same He corrects us for commiting sins!  But ALL GOOD THINGS are from above!  And this is absolute!

And excerpt from FREE WILL - http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12957.0.html
James 1:17  Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights… - So there it is. Does God make people sin? No. But when anything good happens, it’s attributed to God.

If we continue to think that the EFFORT of doing good comes from us then we are in danger of becoming proud and thinking ourselves highly.