Romans 12:2

[patmokgoko]

Does God have "perfect will and permissible will"

[Dave in Tenn]

Hi Patmokgoko.  I'm looking at several translations.  The KJV (and others that usually follow its lead) seems to be saying that the 'will of God' is what is 'good and acceptable and perfect.'--in other words, adjectives that describe the will of God.  Other translations are rendering it that it is the thing 'we may prove' as the will of God that is 'good, acceptable and perfect.'

Here's an example: 

Rom 12:2  And be not configuring yourselves unto this age, but be transforming yourselves by the renewing of your mind, to the end ye may be proving what is the thing willed by God - the good and acceptable and perfect.

I can't tell you which one is 'correct', but it seems to me in light of the rest of scripture that to be 'good, acceptable and perfect' is what the transforming and renewing is proving 'what is the thing willed by God'.  That seems to match precisely what Paul said eariler in Romans:

Rom 8:28  And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29  For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30  Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
and elsewhere where he talks about the will of God in predestination.

Many are called...few are chosen.  The ones He's chosen are going to 'prove' the will of God, and that 'proving' is what is described here (and elsewhere) as 'good, acceptable, and perfect.'

That's what I see, anyways.  I hope that doesn't cloud things.

[stanstillwhite]

A few years ago I was looking at this same question.  I found the answer in one of Ray's papers were he was talking about Balaam. 

Num 22:12  And God said unto Balaam, Thou shalt not go with them; thou shalt not curse the people: for they are blessed.
Num 22:20  And God came unto Balaam at night, and said unto him, If the men come to call thee, rise up, and go with them; but yet the word which I shall say unto thee, that shalt thou do.
Num 22:22  And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his a@@, and his two servants were with him.

What do you think God was telling Balaam by sending that angel.  (not teaching, just asking)
I wonder when we are going to realize that God's permissive will always leads to His perfect will.  It has to if All is of God.  I think Paul really nailed this down in Rom 9.  Romans 8:28 couldn't be true otherwise.

loven,

Stan

[River]

Rom 12:2  And be not configuring yourselves unto this age, but be transforming yourselves by the renewing of your mind, to the end ye may be proving what is the thing willed by God - the good and acceptable and perfect.

Hey Dave, isn't everything God's will? And isn't all of it needed to bring about his purpose so why are we told to do the will of God when we can't do anything else but that? You get me?

[Dave in Tenn]

River, Ray makes the distinction from scripture between God's will and God's purpose. 

Who goes against His will?  Answer:  Everybody.  Who has resisted His purpose?  Answer:  Nobody.  In that sense, it IS God's purpose/intention that we go against His will.  For everything, there is a season, however.  This 'enmity with God' will not last forever.

Eph 1:11  In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will:

Let's be careful not to call evil good, and good evil.

As Ray has said many times, meditate on these things for 1000 hours.     Check out all the things that are God's will that you and I and everybody are not doing/have not done/have not yet come to pass.  That won't last forever either.

(side note:  Ephesians 1 may be the clearest enunciation of the Gospel of the Kingdom I've read.  Check it out if you haven't.)

[River]

Thanks Dave. 

[patmokgoko]

Thank you so much my brothers, this has really helped me, maybe I must still learn to separate the "counsel,will, intend,and purpose" of God.
Tanx again