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Legalism

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Scrybe:
Forgive me if I'm treading ground that you all have years ago, but you know, wrapping your brain around a new idea can take time…

So with no hell to fear, and only love to spurn you on towards good works and godliness, where do you draw the lines of morality?  I was raised Assembly of God and they are very rule-happy people.  Drinking, cussing, smoking, dancing, etc, were all sure signs that you were hell-bound. 

Over the past couple of years I've changed my perspective almost 180 degrees, but that brings up some logistical problems.  For instance, how can I defend any moral ground I have, (based on Biblical precepts) if our only measure is: "Does your action come from Love"?  How can I council a homosexual that in choosing God he must leave behind his perversion.  Or a liar, cheater, fornicator, etc? 

Personally, I've started to learn to discern these things spiritually.  But those who are less mature than me in the faith can't do that very well.  Paul gives advice on how to correct a brother, but that advice occurs within the framework of an organized group.  (Probably a house-church.)  With your advocacy of… lone wolf Christianity… for lack of a better term, (I'm not calling anyone wolves!) how do you approach this matter?  Or does it even matter?  Am I supposed to stop taking Paul's advice on this matter?  Should I limit my concern for a stumbling brother to prayer?

From what I've read on these forums so far, you are a very loving group of people, so I'm very interested in you replies!

P.S. Here is a picture I drew of the spirit of legalism.

   

gmik:
Hi scrybe and welcome!!!  That is an awesome picture!

Can't wait to get some word on this subject as I have pondered it also and I came out of Assemblies also.

Humans do need some structure and order-those of us that came out of Babylon are used to rules and boundaries.  I think a brand new believer with no church background or understanding have the hardest time.

Its like- Ok what do I do now????  For me I am trying to tame the beast within, and trying to walk the crucified life---others over self, helping, generosity, reading the word, prayer etc etc.  For me these new truths haven't really changed my general lifestyle, just that I quit going to church.

My son did witness to his landlord, who is gay, and his reaction was typical---Wow. cool. I am going to be saved anyway, I will keep going as always. No interest in pursuing anything spiritual, or learning more.

Maybe Joe or Bobby will have some good scripture for us!

hillsbororiver:
I can speak from experience here, in my Catholic and SDA days as much as I would try I could not give up the anger, lusts, lies and just about anything else you can imagine, I could go a few days or weeks but I would fail and when I was able to stay true to what I thought He wanted I was really miserable, feeling like I was missing out on all the things I enjoyed and feeling frustrated for suppressing my natural instincts.

When (many years later) I discovered (was led to) Bible Truths and what His purpose really is and why I had to experience the things I did I no longer felt I had to try to do things right, I WANTED to be right with Him out of love, not fear of hell or death or anything. My motivation was to please Him because the more I learned of Him the more I loved Him. The patience and peace, the empathy for others, these things He has given me now, I am still very much a work in progress but the changes in me have prompted others to ask me what it is that has changed my viewpoints and actions so profoundly, that gives me a chance to witness for Him.

When someone is called to the Lord and seeks His wisdom they will find out (in His time) what pleases Him, if they are motivated by love, the task, while not always easy by any means becomes a joyful experience and the growth is a true miracle, it has been in my life.

Joe

 

MG:
I don't have the gift of words and really have a hard time explaining what I believe, but I'll try.

I think that trying to be moral is following the written law. Having the fruit of the Spirit comes from being led by the Spirit.

First we have the written law. When the law came sin sprang to life.

The law is there to show us our sin and because of it sin became utterly sinful.

I can then look at my sin and try to fix myself by being moral and self righteous or I can confess my sin and agree with God that there is no good thing in me.

Romans 3:20
20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 8
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:


Galatians 5
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.


John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

MG:
I reread this thread and would like to add that the conviction of sin is still there and God doesn't lower his standards. Jesus gives the life that allows us to overcome. The law could not do that.

I also think the work of conviction is by the Holy Spirit and it is not something we can do. When the truth is presented to someone and God convicts them of sin they will either have to kill the truth or confess and repent.

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