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[gallenwalsh]

Regarding the lake of fire and Satan and his dominions, Ray has stated that God will make Satan repent. I know that certain angles ( messengers) left their first position given to them by God.This was their sin. I realize they were created as dark spirits( evil). Has ray stated what he thinks their first position was?Does anyone think Satan will become nice by his part in the lake of fire?

[Duane]

Does anyone think Satan will become nice by his part in the lake of fire?

I don't think "nice" is the correct word but "purified" is--and his behavior will be dictated by that.
(Hey, thanks to Andrew's visit, this is my first attempt at "cut and paste"--yeah!)   

[gallenwalsh]

Hmmmmmm,.....never thought of it that way Kat.I thought that God created the darkness, that darkness being Satan and his dominion.That they were never enlightened Never understood why demons want to occupy humans . Just do not get it.and to have 1000's of them in one human, are they that bored? Are we not we bad enough all by ourselves without having that plague to haunt us? So who was dark first Satan or us?

[mharrell08]

Regarding the lake of fire and Satan and his dominions, Ray has stated that God will make Satan repent. I know that certain angles ( messengers) left their first position given to them by God.This was their sin. I realize they were created as dark spirits( evil). Has ray stated what he thinks their first position was?Does anyone think Satan will become nice by his part in the lake of fire?

I don't think the passage you are referring to is speaking of spiritual beings, but men:

Jude 1:4-8  For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.

The excerpts in bold all refer to men (certain men crept in unnoticed; Lord destroying those out of Egypt; 'as Sodom and Gomorrah'; dreamers defiling the flesh).

I remember a good piece of advice from Ray regarding hard to understand scriptures: look at the scriptures before and after the one in question. All the scriptures before angels leaving their abode talks about evil men, as do the scriptures after.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Kat]

I think Marques has a good answer to your question gallenwalsh.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[gallenwalsh]

Thank you for your comments,...I think where I am getting confused is in the story flow( if there is one).From what I have gathered thus far by reading some of Rays papers is that Satan was created evil: From the beginning he was a liar and a murderer.The truth was not found in him.What about the fallen angles: were they once in the light of gods presence?That is what has been implied here.So at some point they followed Satan? I was under the impression that they ( demons) were created evil as well, and that they were part of the darkness God created from the beginning.For his purpose. If the angles went astray was that not part of the plan as well?The darkness has a unified alliance to destroy and corrupt mankind, to which Christ will save us from.I am getting confused because as the world churches teach Satan took a third of the angles of heaven with him and that is what seems to applied here.As I have read in scripture the darkness assembles before god to do gods bidding Satan ,lying spirits etc.Perhaps I am missing the point, and the story altogether, if the angles were always dark why do they fear the deep chaos if they were born and bread for it?Why did they prefer the swine rather than leave a possessed man? When a demon goes out of a man he seeks rest and goes back again with more help so that a man is or gets progressively worse, this certainly describes human nature getting worse all the time. Sometimes i think God merely created the evil to make a short work of this experience of evil he is giving mankind.To accelerate it and get it over as quickly as possible. Are there really any answers to these questions?I have not found any thus far.Hope I made myself a little clearer, hope you can answer.If no one has an answer , that is perfectly fine as well.I realize that we see only through a glass and our vision is blurred at this time.The most important thing is to concentrate on what God wants for us and to follow Christ.That being said These are things I have wondered about my whole life.

[mharrell08]

What about the fallen angles: were they once in the light of gods presence?That is what has been implied here.So at some point they followed Satan?

There have never been heavenly angels, who left their initial position as messengers of God, to follow Satan. This is a popular christian myth but has no basis in the scriptures.

There have been MANY human messengers (who are referred to as angels occasionally in the scriptures), who were called out of the world, but ultimately were not of the Elect and pursued the depths of Satan. Look under Ray's latest paper 'Hell is a Christian Hoax' (http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html) under 'Contradiction #50'.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[dave]

What about the fallen angles: were they once in the light of gods presence?That is what has been implied here.So at some point they followed Satan?

There have never been heavenly angels, who left their initial position as messengers of God, to follow Satan. This is a popular christian myth but has no basis in the scriptures.

There have been MANY human messengers (who are referred to as angels occasionally in the scriptures), who were called out of the world, but ultimately were not of the Elect and pursued the depths of Satan. Look under Ray's latest paper 'Hell is a Christian Hoax' (http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html) under 'Contradiction #50'.


Hope this helps,

Marques

Amen!

[Samson]

Regarding the lake of fire and Satan and his dominions, Ray has stated that God will make Satan repent. I know that certain angles ( messengers) left their first position given to them by God.This was their sin. I realize they were created as dark spirits( evil). Has ray stated what he thinks their first position was?Does anyone think Satan will become nice by his part in the lake of fire?

I don't think the passage you are referring to is speaking of spiritual beings, but men:

Jude 1:4-8  For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.

The excerpts in bold all refer to men (certain men crept in unnoticed; Lord destroying those out of Egypt; 'as Sodom and Gomorrah'; dreamers defiling the flesh).

I remember a good piece of advice from Ray regarding hard to understand scriptures: look at the scriptures before and after the one in question. All the scriptures before angels leaving their abode talks about evil men, as do the scriptures after.


Hope this helps,

Marques

Marques makes a good and valid point in His last paragraph in the above Post regarding Jude Verses 4-8. Everywhere in that passage, Men are being referred to: " certain MEN crept in unnoticed,"  "The Lord saving PEOPLE out of Egypt,"  " destroyed THOSE(people) that didn't believe,"  " Messengers(Angels) that didn't keep their proper domain, "  " DREAMERS(MEN) that defile the flesh reject authority & speak evil of dignitaries." (PARAPHRASE & CAPS ARE MINE)

So, in the above We have 1) CERTAIN MEN; 2) SAVING PEOPLE; 3) PEOPLE that didn't believe & 4) DREAMERS(Men) are mentioned in four out of five cases where someone is mentioned. It would be inconsistent for the one other case where it speaks of Messengers(Angels) to be referring to Spiritual Beings.

Also, the primary meaning of Aggelos is Messengers, regardless of whether their Human or Spirit Realm Ones and by implication, the Greek word Aggelos(Ang-el-os) can mean "Pastor."

G32
ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.


Samson.

[seaofglass]

Here is the answer.

(YLT)  messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept,

Pray study and learn