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stop sinning or something worse will happen to you
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: patmokgoko on October 10, 2011, 03:37:26 AM ---.My confussion is that while I see "stop sinning" as a process, it is like Jesus wants the man to stop now.
--- End quote ---
But Jesus didn't say stop sinning now. Nor did He say that we must do it by ourselves.
Kat:
Hi patmokgoko,
These seeming contradictions do take a bit of ubnderstanding to comprehend. Here are a few places Ray speaks on this.
http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm --------------
What then of all the supposed contradictions in Scripture? Below are a few examples of what many would call contradictions in the Scriptures:
THE RELATIVE: THE ABSOLUTE:
" ...seek, and ye shall find... " (Mat. 7:7) "Not one is seeking out God" (Rom. 3:11)
"God changed His mind" (Ex. 32:14) "God is not a man Who changes His
mind" (I Sam. 15:29)
" ...CHOOSE you this day whom ye will "Ye have NOT CHOSEN me,
serve." (Josh. 24:15) but I have chosen you... " (Jn. 15:16)
" ...whosoever doeth not righteousness is "ALL is of God" (II Cor. 5:18)
NOT of God... " (I Jn. 3:10)
"Zechariah was righteous before "There is none righteous" (Rom. 3:10)
God" (Luke 1:5-6).
"Come unto Me…" (Matt. 11:28) "None CAN come to Me…" (John 6:44 & 65)
To the carnal mind, the above Scriptures are contradictions, and therefore proof that the Word of God is not consistently true.
Even the greatest theologians in the world deny this truth that "All is of God," because they cannot distinguish the relative from man’s doings from the absolute which is God’s doing.
In the first example man is told to seek but is also told that no man seeks. Which is it? They are both true. No man does seek God except and until God brings about circumstances wherein he does seek God. But He only does seek God because "All is of God" who brings about the circumstances whereby someone who would not seek God, now does seek God.
In the second example we are told that God changes His mind [repents], but are also told that God is not a man who repents or changes His mind. The answers are all the same. Where it appears to many that God felt sorry for ever having created mankind, He is in reality doing only that which He had determined to do from the beginning. It is only from man’s perspective that God repented or changed His mind. God always knows the "end from the beginning," and therefore is never surprised or never thwarted or frustrated requiring a change in course or a change of plans.
A few years ago someone tried to trip me up with this verse:
"They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spoke it neither came it into My mind" (Jer. 19:5).
Here, I was told, is absolute proof that God learns new things that He didn’t know before. Nonsense.
This is a simple problem of translating. The word translated "mind" in this verse is the Hebrew word leb, and it means the "heart with its feelings," not the mind. The King James very often confuses heart with mind and mind with soul, as if they were one and the same thing even though there are different words for each.
God’s plan and purpose for humanity consists of many, many things which are not after God’s own heart, but that are, nonetheless, absolutely essential for the completion of His plan:
"Say unto them, As I live, says the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" (Ezek. 33:11).
This is God’s HEART speaking in this verse. But in the MIND of God, the death of the wicked was absolutely necessary, and a prophesied fact that could not be avoided:
"For I will lay the land most desolate, and the pomp of her strength shall cease, and the mountains of Israel shall be desolate, that none shall pass through" (Ver. 28).
This is but another of countless examples in Scripture that show God’s mind and His heart. God takes no pleasure or delight in His heart over the horrible things that continually happen to humanity, but nonetheless, these things are absolutely essential to the fulfillment of the plan that God has devised in His mind.
It is absolute blasphemy to think or teach that God is the Creator of all that is, but then takes zero responsibility for all the evils of that creation—ALL is of God.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg34384.html#msg34384 -------------------
[Someone ask the question: Is that why Christ was always in prayer?]
Well yes, it’s like the old saying; act like it all depends on you and pray like it all depends on God. That’s the way you should live your life. He could not help but pray.
What appears to be contradictions are not contradictions, when you have a higher spiritual understanding of what it’s talking about. Let me show you a perfect example and it sounds like a contradiction, but it’s not.
Phi 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Doesn’t that contradict this whole thing... we’re saved by grace and not of works? Now we’re to work out our own salvation? What is that? How do you explain that “Of Myself I can do nothing” (John 5:30)? And He said "YOU can do nothing" (John 15:5), to the apostles. Then Paul says “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” Well it does sound like a contradiction. But read the next verse and He tells us why. "For" now that word always means ‘because' or it’s another word for because.
Phi 2:13 For (because) it is God who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
Some of you probably still don’t get the answer, but it is there. "Work out your own salvation," is not the gist of that saying. He is not saying, work out your own salvation, period. No, He’s saying “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, that’s where the emphases is, on fear and trembling, not on working out your own salvation.
You work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, why? Because it all depends on God! If God doesn’t do it, it won’t happen, IT WON’T HAPPEN! So we live in fear and trepidation.
---------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Rene:
--- Quote from: patmokgoko on October 10, 2011, 03:37:26 AM ---
I hope and pray that someone sees my frustration, I sometimes comfort myself that this "stop sinning" is relative.
Please help!
--- End quote ---
Hi patmokgoko,
You have received some very good answers, and as others have replied, this "stop sinning" is not something we can do on our own strength, just as your ability to understand these spiritual truths is not something you can accomplish on your own.
I find it interesting that the scripture you are so confused about comes from the 5th chapter of the book of John, because in that very same chapter Jesus tells us that He can do nothing of His own without the Father.
John 5:19 - "Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."
John 5:30 - "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."
My only advice to you is to pray that the Lord will open your understanding.
René
Samson:
--- Quote from: patmokgoko on October 10, 2011, 03:37:26 AM ---If there is no magic bullet that will instantly clean us of all sin and bad habits........why would Jesus command the man to stop sinning-Jesus should know better.
If Jesus paid in full why should He ask of this man to stop sinning, "i have paid the price, yours is just to stop sinning".My confussion is that while I see "stop sinning" as a process, it is like Jesus wants the man to stop now.While I see it as Jesus who is able to stop us from sinning, now He is demanding that we do on our own.Jesus knows that we are not perfect and He is the One to perfect us demands "stop sinning and be perfect".When Jesus knows fully well that "the good that i want to do i dont do" I can't wait to sin because I am too weak not to sin.
I hope and pray that someone sees my frustration, I sometimes comfort myself that this "stop sinning" is relative.
Please help!
--- End quote ---
Aside from the "Stop Sinning" in this Scripture being part of a gradual process, I thought of the concept that " A statement of Fact(If you don't stop sinning, something worse might befall You) doesn't mean a statement of limitation(He will or has to stop sinning that very moment)." The statement of fact is that this Man will reap the consequences as a result of sinning, just like every Human who ever lived or just like you or me will reap consequences from any sin we commit from this point forward in time. Whenever We Sin, We reap the consequences and something " worse might happen to us or befall us" as the result from sinning, even where sins are not premeditated, because Sins are mistakes, missing the mark, regardless if there intentional or unintentional. The consequences that We receive as a result of sinning may not be fully realized immediately, but sooner or later We reap the consequences of "Sinning" ( A pattern of Sin). So, something worse might happen to Us(A statement of Fact).
Just a thought on my part, Samson.
Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---If there is no magic bullet that will instantly clean us of all sin and bad habits........why would Jesus command the man to stop sinning-Jesus should know better.
If Jesus paid in full why should He ask of this man to stop sinning, "i have paid the price, yours is just to stop sinning".
--- End quote ---
1 Pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1 Pet 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God
You say Jesus has paid in full but as He is so shall we be in the world.This misconception that we as followers of Jesus have no part in becoming as He is takes away from Gods work in you. We learn righteousness only by the Grace of God through suffering in this flesh,because that is the will of God.When we have the mind of Jesus we no longer want to sin after the lusts of mankind.That is absolutely relative to not wanting to sin willfully in our lives.
Rom 6:18 And being made free from sin you have been made the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:14 For sin may not have rule over you: because you are not under law, but under grace.
It is Jesus in you that stops sin from having dominion over you, meaning that the process of being made whole is all of God.We can do nothing of ourselves. The process of our old man dying and our new man overcoming the sins of the flesh is what Jesus meant when he said;
Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
When Christ changes our direction in life, sin no longer has control over our lives.If we fall back into the old ways of our old man, that being, without Christ in us, that in and of itself would be a worse thing, because the Truth is no longer with us.
Romans Six explains nicely.
BBE
Rom 6:1 What may we say, then? are we to go on in sin so that there may be more grace?
Rom 6:2 In no way. How may we, who are dead to sin, be living in it any longer?
Rom 6:3 Or are you without the knowledge that all we who had baptism into Christ Jesus, had baptism into his death?
Rom 6:4 We have been placed with him among the dead through baptism into death: so that as Christ came again from the dead by the glory of the Father, we, in the same way, might be living in new life.
Rom 6:5 For, if we have been made like him in his death, we will, in the same way, be like him in his coming to life again;
Rom 6:6 Being conscious that our old man was put to death on the cross with him, so that the body of sin might be put away, and we might no longer be servants to sin.
Rom 6:7 Because he who is dead is free from sin.
Rom 6:8 But if we are dead with Christ, we have faith that we will be living with him;
Rom 6:9 Having knowledge that because Christ has come back from the dead, he will never again go down to the dead; death has no more power over him.
Rom 6:10 For his death was a death to sin, but his life now is a life which he is living to God.
Rom 6:11 Even so see yourselves as dead to sin, but living to God in Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:12 For this cause do not let sin be ruling in your body which is under the power of death, so that you give way to its desires;
Rom 6:13 And do not give your bodies to sin as the instruments of wrongdoing, but give yourselves to God, as those who are living from the dead, and your bodies as instruments of righteousness to God.
Rom 6:14 For sin may not have rule over you: because you are not under law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? are we to go on in sin because we are not under law but under grace? Let it not be so.
Rom 6:16 Are you not conscious that you are the servants of him to whom you give yourselves to do his desire? if to sin, the end being death, or if to do the desire of God, the end being righteousness.
Rom 6:17 But praise be to God that though you were the servants of sin, you have now given yourselves freely to that form of teaching under which you were placed;
Rom 6:18 And being made free from sin you have been made the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I am using words in the way of men, because your flesh is feeble: as you gave your bodies as servants to what is unclean, and to evil to do evil, so now give them as servants to righteousness to do what is holy.
Rom 6:20 When you were servants of sin you were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had you at that time in the things which are now a shame to you? for the end of such things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now, being free from sin, and having been made servants to God, you have your fruit in that which is holy, and the end is eternal life.
Rom 6:23 For the reward of sin is death; but what God freely gives is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord.
Hope this is of some help.
Peace...Mark
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