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[patmokgoko]

Hi friends, what did Jesus mean in John 5:14 by "stop sinning or something worse will befall you?" Is it possible that I can stop sinning (all by myself)

[mharrell08]

Hi friends, what did Jesus mean in John 5:14 by "stop sinning or something worse will befall you?" Is it possible that I can stop sinning (all by myself)

The following are similar admonishments from Jesus & His apostles about being converted and then falling back into the world. The 'something worse that will befall you' is speaking of judgment in the next age.

Matt 12:43-45 (Jesus speaking a parable) “When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. Then he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So shall it also be with this wicked generation.”

Heb 4:8   For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

2 Pet 2:20-22  For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

Is it possible that I can stop sinning (all by myself)

No, and neither did Jesus say so. I've never read a scripture that said to do anything 'all by myself'. Maybe if God never said it, it must be impossible... 


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Dave in Tenn]

We don't do anything all by ourselves.

[indianabob]

Romans 7:
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.c For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of si

[markn902]

So how do we know whether we are sinning and falling away as this "For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them"

or whether we are just going through yet another trial by fire in this life? lots of events leading me to here had to do with "sin" as it were. How do we now if we have crossed the line now?

[mharrell08]

How do we now if we have crossed the line now?

That's the thing, you don't. When sin is reigning in you, your mind is not on the things of God. When you are on the path to destruction, the last thing on your mind is 'when have I crossed the line.'

Remember Ray's last conference when he made that point on 'as a man thinks, so he is' [Ps 23:7]. Even if you mess up on a daily basis (and we all do), there's always something that brings our thoughts to God. That's God drawing us to Him...because if He didn't bring our attention to Him, nothing else would. It doesn't mean you're perfect or better than someone else, but it does mean God is drawing you to Him and that is how He keeps us from falling [Jude v24].



Hope this helps,

Marques

[DougE6]

1Co 11:31  For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1Co 11:32  But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Mat 7:2  For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3  And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4  Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5  Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

We must judge ourselves, as the scriptures tell us. This judging, can reap rewards, as it shows us plainly our deep failings and as we seek Him and beg Him for change...He changes us.  And it can help us from becoming hypocrites! Just speaking from my life, I truly WANT to, I Want to please God, to stop sinning, to tear down idols as he shows them; and yet still fail, but it doesn't stop my striving. But I can say, that as the years and time goes on, I can see the work He is doing in me. I do see progress! Even through a dark glass, I think I can see the reasons for some of the most difficult and challenging things God has called me to live through. That at times seemed inscrutable and so hard. I judge my heart, most every day. Specially if I fail Him in some manner. Ouch goes my conscience.  I ask God to purify my heart and my motives. I ask God to show me the beam in my eye so I can cast it out, so I can have a clear conscience before Him. I DO NOT WANT TO BE CONDEMNED WITH THE WORLD. I long to be righteous. to be good, to attain, to be with Him, somehow, to the resurrection of the righteous. Paul said it so much better than my clumsy words...

Php 3:10  That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11  If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Too me, those two verses are the goal of my faith. Why oh why would i want to spend any time with any sinful wordly thoughts and desires?

[Kat]

Hi patmokgoko,

Is it possible that I can stop sinning (all by myself)

Here are a few emails that helps explain this dilemma of, stop sinning.

http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#stop ----------------------------------

[Ray Replies]

Unfortunately, there is not a magic bullet that will instantly clean us of all sin and bad habits. Even the physical analogies of this spiritual washing, purging, and cleaning of our carnality, indicate that time is required. It takes time to wash clothing, it takes time to purify gold and silver in a furnace, etc.

The penalty of sin issue can be settled in your heart and mind the instant you come to realize that Jesus PAID IN FULL the penalty for your sins and all the sin of the world. However, paying the penalty for sin does not instantly PURGE AND WASH US CLEAN OF SIN. The penalty is paid, but the condition lingers.

The more you SEE your sins and shortcomings, the more you will DESIRE to rid yourself of these things. We are crucified WITH CHRIST, yet we live, but the life we live is one of OVERCOMING THE SINS FOR WHICH WE AND CHRIST DIED FOR.

We have been HAND-PICKED by God to be in His kingdom. Now we must go through the training course that He has set before us.  Jesus said that He overcame THE WORLD. We too are to overcome THE WORLD. It's a HUGE task, that requires the power of SPIRIT to accomplish. 

Don't become discouraged in well-doing. You will triumph in Christ if you have His spirit working in you. God will even give you the DESIRE to want to do right and be right.

This life is a life of SPIRITUAL WARFARE. There will be many battles before the final victory. So we must endure and we must overcome. For those whom God has chosen, this will be accomplished!


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=2465.0 ----------------------

Yours is a common frustration. Many write me with similar struggles
with the flesh after coming into a knowledge of the Truth. I did the
same. I left my First Love and went back into the world, all the while
knowing that I couldn't conquor my flesh. I was so happy for what I
'preceived to be "greasy grace."  Thank God for grace, because I knew
I wasn't going to be saved without it.

I still believe that that part of it is true (about saved by grace only), but
I also know that it is possible when God gets ready, to conquor your
major sins so that sin no longer "reigns over you."  You will not be totally
perfect and mature, but you will not be giving into every pull of the flesh,
for sexual gratification, lust for money, power, good looks, eternal youth,
perfect health, interesting job, travel and excitement, etc., etc., etc.  You
will learn to enjoy the simple pleasure of life like, breathing, sleeping,
walking, talking to your wife, eating a pizza, and going to bed early on a
Saturday night.

God will make you really WANT to stop sinning, long before you will
ACTUALLY stop sinning. It's part of the struggle; part of the good
fight of faith; part of overcoming the flesh.  Don't become discouraged, as
God WILL SEE YOUR THROUGH!


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=5854.0 --------

No Believer is "perfect" and totally free from sin while he is still in this flesh.  One needs to repent of their sins and be led by God's Holy Spirit into a life where one is no longer reigned over by sin.  It doesn't mean that we are perfect and sinless. Even the Apostle John near the end of his ministry plainly stated:

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
v
There are many Scriptures which speak of how we are to come out of sin, and stop sinning, even though we never achieve total perfection while we are in the flesh:

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savour.

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whore monger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

God be with you,

Ray

[patmokgoko]

If there is no magic bullet that will instantly clean us of all sin and bad habits........why would Jesus command the man to stop sinning-Jesus should know better.
If Jesus paid in full why should He ask of this man to stop sinning, "i have paid the price, yours is just to stop sinning".My confussion is that while I see "stop sinning" as a process, it is like Jesus wants the man to stop now.While I see it as Jesus who is able to stop us from sinning, now He is demanding that we do on our own.Jesus knows that we are not perfect and He is the One to perfect us demands "stop sinning and be perfect".When Jesus knows fully well that "the good that i want to do i dont do" I can't wait to sin because I am too weak not to sin.
I hope and pray that someone sees my frustration, I sometimes comfort myself that this "stop sinning" is relative.
Please help!

[JohnMichael]

If there is no magic bullet that will instantly clean us of all sin and bad habits........why would Jesus command the man to stop sinning-Jesus should know better.
If Jesus paid in full why should He ask of this man to stop sinning, "i have paid the price, yours is just to stop sinning".My confussion is that while I see "stop sinning" as a process, it is like Jesus wants the man to stop now.While I see it as Jesus who is able to stop us from sinning, now He is demanding that we do on our own.Jesus knows that we are not perfect and He is the One to perfect us demands "stop sinning and be perfect".When Jesus knows fully well that "the good that i want to do i dont do" I can't wait to sin because I am too weak not to sin.
I hope and pray that someone sees my frustration, I sometimes comfort myself that this "stop sinning" is relative.
Please help!

Bingo! It is the desire to stop sinning, and the attempts to resist that are under the "stop sinning" commandment. It is the relative. The absolute being that we cannot stop sinning - only Christ working in us can stop us from sinning. There is a balance achieved. It's in how you view the sin. God is the one who removes the sin, BUT man must not try to use the Sovereignty of God to justify sin, so as God gives man the ability and desire, the man will strive to resist.

I hope that helps. In Him,
John

[mharrell08]

.My confussion is that while I see "stop sinning" as a process, it is like Jesus wants the man to stop now.

But Jesus didn't say stop sinning now. Nor did He say that we must do it by ourselves.

[Kat]

Hi patmokgoko,

These seeming contradictions do take a bit of ubnderstanding to comprehend. Here are a few places Ray speaks on this.

http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm --------------

What then of all the supposed contradictions in Scripture? Below are a few examples of what many would call contradictions in the Scriptures:

        THE RELATIVE:                                                        THE ABSOLUTE:
 
" ...seek, and ye shall find... " (Mat. 7:7)                 "Not one is seeking out God" (Rom. 3:11)

"God changed His mind" (Ex. 32:14)                         "God is not a man Who changes His
                                                                              mind" (I Sam. 15:29)

" ...CHOOSE you this day whom ye will                    "Ye have NOT CHOSEN me,    
      serve." (Josh. 24:15)                                        but I have chosen you... " (Jn. 15:16)

" ...whosoever doeth not righteousness is                "ALL is of God" (II Cor. 5:18)
     NOT of God... " (I Jn. 3:10)  
  
"Zechariah was righteous before                             "There is none righteous" (Rom. 3:10)
  God" (Luke 1:5-6).
 
"Come unto Me…" (Matt. 11:28)                              "None CAN come to Me…" (John 6:44 & 65)
 

To the carnal mind, the above Scriptures are contradictions, and therefore proof that the Word of God is not consistently true.

Even the greatest theologians in the world deny this truth that "All is of God," because they cannot distinguish the relative from man’s doings from the absolute which is God’s doing.

In the first example man is told to seek but is also told that no man seeks. Which is it? They are both true. No man does seek God except and until God brings about circumstances wherein he does seek God. But He only does seek God because "All is of God" who brings about the circumstances whereby someone who would not seek God, now does seek God.

In the second example we are told that God changes His mind [repents], but are also told that God is not a man who repents or changes His mind. The answers are all the same. Where it appears to many that God felt sorry for ever having created mankind, He is in reality doing only that which He had determined to do from the beginning. It is only from man’s perspective that God repented or changed His mind. God always knows the "end from the beginning," and therefore is never surprised or never thwarted or frustrated requiring a change in course or a change of plans.

A few years ago someone tried to trip me up with this verse:

"They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spoke it neither came it into My mind" (Jer. 19:5).

Here, I was told, is absolute proof that God learns new things that He didn’t know before. Nonsense.

This is a simple problem of translating. The word translated "mind" in this verse is the Hebrew word leb, and it means the "heart with its feelings," not the mind. The King James very often confuses heart with mind and mind with soul, as if they were one and the same thing even though there are different words for each.

God’s plan and purpose for humanity consists of many, many things which are not after God’s own heart, but that are, nonetheless, absolutely essential for the completion of His plan:

"Say unto them, As I live, says the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" (Ezek. 33:11).

This is God’s HEART speaking in this verse. But in the MIND of God, the death of the wicked was absolutely necessary, and a prophesied fact that could not be avoided:

"For I will lay the land most desolate, and the pomp of her strength shall cease, and the mountains of Israel shall be desolate, that none shall pass through" (Ver. 28).

This is but another of countless examples in Scripture that show God’s mind and His heart. God takes no pleasure or delight in His heart over the horrible things that continually happen to humanity, but nonetheless, these things are absolutely essential to the fulfillment of the plan that God has devised in His mind.

It is absolute blasphemy to think or teach that God is the Creator of all that is, but then takes zero responsibility for all the evils of that creation—ALL is of God.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg34384.html#msg34384 -------------------

[Someone ask the question: Is that why Christ was always in prayer?]
Well yes, it’s like the old saying; act like it all depends on you and pray like it all depends on God. That’s the way you should live your life. He could not help but pray.  

What appears to be contradictions are not contradictions, when you have a higher spiritual understanding of what it’s talking about. Let me show you a perfect example and it sounds like a contradiction, but it’s not.

Phi 2:12  Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Doesn’t that contradict this whole thing... we’re saved by grace and not of works? Now we’re to work out our own salvation? What is that? How do you explain that “Of Myself I can do nothing” (John 5:30)? And He said "YOU can do nothing" (John 15:5), to the apostles. Then Paul says “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” Well it does sound like a contradiction. But read the next verse and He tells us why. "For" now that word always means ‘because' or it’s another word for because.

Phi 2:13  For (because) it is God who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Some of you probably still don’t get the answer, but it is there. "Work out your own salvation," is not the gist of that saying. He is not saying, work out your own salvation, period. No, He’s saying “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, that’s where the emphases is, on fear and trembling, not on working out your own salvation.  

You work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, why? Because it all depends on God! If God doesn’t do it, it won’t happen, IT WON’T HAPPEN! So we live in fear and trepidation.
---------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Rene]

I hope and pray that someone sees my frustration, I sometimes comfort myself that this "stop sinning" is relative.
Please help!

Hi patmokgoko,

You have received some very good answers, and as others have replied, this "stop sinning" is not something we can do on our own strength, just as your ability to understand these spiritual truths is not something you can accomplish on your own. 

I find it interesting that the scripture you are so confused about comes from the 5th chapter of the book of John, because in that very same chapter Jesus tells us that He can do nothing of His own without the Father.

John 5:19 - "Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 5:30 - "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."

My only advice to you is to pray that the Lord will open your understanding.

René

[Samson]

If there is no magic bullet that will instantly clean us of all sin and bad habits........why would Jesus command the man to stop sinning-Jesus should know better.
If Jesus paid in full why should He ask of this man to stop sinning, "i have paid the price, yours is just to stop sinning".My confussion is that while I see "stop sinning" as a process, it is like Jesus wants the man to stop now.While I see it as Jesus who is able to stop us from sinning, now He is demanding that we do on our own.Jesus knows that we are not perfect and He is the One to perfect us demands "stop sinning and be perfect".When Jesus knows fully well that "the good that i want to do i dont do" I can't wait to sin because I am too weak not to sin.
I hope and pray that someone sees my frustration, I sometimes comfort myself that this "stop sinning" is relative.
Please help!

Aside from the "Stop Sinning" in this Scripture being part of a gradual process, I thought of the concept that " A statement of Fact(If you don't stop sinning, something worse might befall You) doesn't mean a statement of limitation(He will or has to stop sinning that very moment)." The statement of fact is that this Man will reap the consequences as a result of sinning, just like every Human who ever lived or just like you or me will reap consequences from any sin we commit from this point forward in time. Whenever We Sin, We reap the consequences and something " worse might happen to us or befall us" as the result from sinning, even where sins are not premeditated, because Sins are mistakes, missing the mark, regardless if there intentional or unintentional. The consequences that We receive as a result of sinning may not be fully realized immediately, but sooner or later We reap the consequences of "Sinning" ( A pattern of Sin). So, something worse might happen to Us(A statement of Fact).

Just a thought on my part, Samson.

[Marky Mark]

If there is no magic bullet that will instantly clean us of all sin and bad habits........why would Jesus command the man to stop sinning-Jesus should know better.
If Jesus paid in full why should He ask of this man to stop sinning, "i have paid the price, yours is just to stop sinning".

1 Pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1 Pet 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God

You say Jesus has paid in full but as He is so shall we be in the world.This misconception that we as followers of Jesus have no part in becoming as He is takes away from Gods work in you. We learn righteousness only by the Grace of God through suffering in this flesh,because that is the will of God.When we have the mind of Jesus we no longer want to sin after the lusts of mankind.That is absolutely relative to not wanting to sin willfully in our lives.
 
Rom 6:18 And being made free from sin you have been made the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:14 For sin may not have rule over you: because you are not under law, but under grace.

It is Jesus in you that stops sin from having dominion over you, meaning that the process of being made whole is all of God.We can do nothing of ourselves. The process of our old man dying and our new man overcoming the sins of the flesh is what Jesus meant when he said;

Joh 5:14  Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

When Christ changes our direction in life, sin no longer has control over our lives.If we fall back into the old ways of our old man, that being, without Christ in us, that in and of itself would be a worse thing, because the Truth is no longer with us.

Romans Six explains nicely.

BBE                                     
Rom 6:1  What may we say, then? are we to go on in sin so that there may be more grace?
Rom 6:2  In no way. How may we, who are dead to sin, be living in it any longer?
Rom 6:3  Or are you without the knowledge that all we who had baptism into Christ Jesus, had baptism into his death?
Rom 6:4  We have been placed with him among the dead through baptism into death: so that as Christ came again from the dead by the glory of the Father, we, in the same way, might be living in new life.
Rom 6:5  For, if we have been made like him in his death, we will, in the same way, be like him in his coming to life again;
Rom 6:6  Being conscious that our old man was put to death on the cross with him, so that the body of sin might be put away, and we might no longer be servants to sin.
Rom 6:7  Because he who is dead is free from sin.
Rom 6:8  But if we are dead with Christ, we have faith that we will be living with him;
Rom 6:9  Having knowledge that because Christ has come back from the dead, he will never again go down to the dead; death has no more power over him.
Rom 6:10  For his death was a death to sin, but his life now is a life which he is living to God.
Rom 6:11  Even so see yourselves as dead to sin, but living to God in Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:12  For this cause do not let sin be ruling in your body which is under the power of death, so that you give way to its desires;
Rom 6:13  And do not give your bodies to sin as the instruments of wrongdoing, but give yourselves to God, as those who are living from the dead, and your bodies as instruments of righteousness to God.
Rom 6:14  For sin may not have rule over you: because you are not under law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15  What then? are we to go on in sin because we are not under law but under grace? Let it not be so.
Rom 6:16  Are you not conscious that you are the servants of him to whom you give yourselves to do his desire? if to sin, the end being death, or if to do the desire of God, the end being righteousness.
Rom 6:17  But praise be to God that though you were the servants of sin, you have now given yourselves freely to that form of teaching under which you were placed;
Rom 6:18  And being made free from sin you have been made the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19  I am using words in the way of men, because your flesh is feeble: as you gave your bodies as servants to what is unclean, and to evil to do evil, so now give them as servants to righteousness to do what is holy.
Rom 6:20  When you were servants of sin you were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21  What fruit had you at that time in the things which are now a shame to you? for the end of such things is death.
Rom 6:22  But now, being free from sin, and having been made servants to God, you have your fruit in that which is holy, and the end is eternal life.
Rom 6:23  For the reward of sin is death; but what God freely gives is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord. 

Hope this is of some help.

Peace...Mark

[tau]

DougE6

I fully can relate with what you say (and everyone else on this thread), not only do i understand what you are saying, but i comprehend the depth of what you are stating as well. As many can atest in this forum, and as Christ Himself said;

Mat 7:14  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Atleast for me, the above verse, together with these verses you quoted;

Php 3:10  That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11  If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Forms the anchor and a rallying point of sustaining and being concious of the desire to do good and being concious of where i stand (lest i fall), to know that all is of God, and on our own we cannot do anything and being fully concious to the fact that we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (scares the 'hell' out of me), I also would like to believe that my running is according to the rules, not hitting the air as Paul said, always concious of the possibility of being disqualified should I not run according to the rules, just because all is of God it is my humble view does not negate the concious effort on our side to constantly strive to enter via the narrow gate, after all it is God who said we are to be humbled by the evil we are to suffer. Yep, these words stop sinning or something worse will happen to you are as real as if they were said to me, afterall everything that happened in the bible is for our own admonishen, examples and warning, this with the view that we may attain towards the perfect goal we so much long for, this indeed is the race, we truly never stop running or learning until our death bed, scary, but quiet true.

Sorry, I just felt I had to express my feelings on this one, it always touches home

[Dave in Tenn]

Maybe it's not necessary, but still worth inserting.  There are a number of things mentioned in the new covenant scriptures that can mark one as 'disqualified' beyond the 'sins' we've grown up understanding.  This is a new covenant (not as Ray says, an attempt to keep the old covenant better).  The heart of this covenant is Spiritual.  I don't think we can drag old understandings into this, or figure things out from a few verses and interpretations of verses from our old sources.

Maybe that helps too.

[Joel]

The law at that time showed no mercy, and breaking some of them required the death penalty. The Jews that saw the man that Jesus had healed, carrying his bed and walking on a sabbath day gave him a fit about doing so.

"Least a worse thing come unto thee".
Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Joel

[newgene87]

Oh my....the wisdom spoken here is truly amazing! His one question answered multiplequestions of my own. I am nearly in tears from word here. So to attempt. To add, it reminds me of the teaching Jesus taught by his "manner" of prayer in that he says "lead us not into temptation...." . And James says "let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted OF (or from) God; for God cannot be tempted of evil and He himself tempts no one." (James 1:13). So beyond the fact Jesus told him to stop sinning; we know that temptation will always be there. And as verse 14 says, each one is "tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust.... so if someone can help me with that thought.  How should we pray the concept of God not leading us into temptation but we are tempted when we are drawn away of our lust and that it's not God who tempts anyway. I believe (yes my spiritual immature understanding) , I see that "sin" begins with the lust that we all already carry. The lust that dwell in our flesh. And then temptation drawing us away and that lust conceiving?? Is it here the Spirit of Christ doesn't allow us to "conceive the sin"? I hope I'm close. We mayy stop sinning before something befalls us: but we always face the threat of the tempter..and even then how do we overcome those many many many times that they occur?? Like someone said on here we are on a continual spiritual battlefield. I hope the word here sparked a thought or an answer or a question. I know God will answer in His time.  Again, this forum is amazing. Praise God for the joining His people of seeking His truths!

[Rene]

Hi Eugene and welcome to the forum.

Here is an excerpt from the "Lake of Fire" series, Part D-4 "Gehenna Fire Judgment."  If you have not done so, now would be a good time to study this lesson because I believe this bible study will help you get a better understanding to some of the questions you are seeking.

René

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm

Jesus never sinned. Why not? Why didn't Jesus sin? I have said before: Because His Father wouldn't let Him sin, and because His Father inspired Jesus through His Holy Spirit to turn from the temptation every time. Jesus' motivation to not sin was much greater than His temptation to sin, and the stronger motivator (the love of God's Spirit in Him) always won out. This is how Jesus "overcame the world." Now then, is this powerful motivator available to us? Yes, thank God, it is:

"But you shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you..." (Acts 1:.

And so, when a man who is tempted to spend more time looking at a woman than he should, looking at her to lust after her, the Spirit of God will give him power to turn away. God won't make you or force you to turn away, but He will give you the power to turn away, and then you have to do the turning. And should you fail to turn away before you actually lust after her, then you must "pluck out your eye. No not your literal, physical, organ of the body, but the lustful eye of your heart.

No man's physical eyes has ever lusted after anything. All lust comes from the heart, the carnal mind, and that part of the carnal mind must be "plucked out," or "cut off." But you must be the one who does the plucking and cutting or God will intervene and "cast your whole body into Gehenna fire" in a later Judgment where this spiritual fire is called "The Lake of Fire."

We can either volunteer to stop sinning now, in this life, or God will volunteer us to stop sinning later, in the resurrection to Judgment. Yes, of course, it will be God in us regardless of which Judgment we find ourselves.

Now we learn something very specific from Christ's statements regarding Gehenna fire in this Sermon on the Mount, but we must look very closely to see this truth.

One of the ways that Jesus Judges His disciples is through spiritual "Gehenna fire." If one doesn't "pluck out an eye" or "cut off a hand," the result will be that "your whole body should be cast into hell [Gehenna fire]" (Matt. 5:30). Read it carefully now: By not plucking out one's eye or cutting off one's hand, the result is that one's whole body is cast into Gehenna fire. What then does plucking out an eye or cutting off a hand represent, but the fact that only part of one's body at a time is being destroyed in Gehenna fire. We can either have the different parts of our carnal mind burned by this spiritual Gehenna fire, and reign with Christ, or we can have our whole body burned by this Gehenna fire and miss out on reigning with Christ.