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overcoming sin

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newgene87:
Ah man, I accidently stumbled upon a old post which was AMAZING and I can't go back to it on my phone. But it expounded a revelation how we never overcome sin; and explains brilliantly with Scriptures. I just wonder what did God mean when he spoke to Cain, "if you do well, shall you not be accepted? And if you do not well, SIN LIES AT THE DOOR. and into you is his desire, and you shall rule over him."(Genesis 4:7) I see how my companion bible says the Hebrew here for sin is "sin-offering" and young's say, "sin-bearer" (I think). But is God really saying that he was to rule over sin?? And does that apply to us? And how is that possible when we're flesh and sin dwells within us?? What is the mystery behind this verse? Thanks :)

newgene87:
Does anybody wanna help me with this Genesis 4:7 enigma??

Dave in Tenn:
This seems to be a difficult verse to translate, as every one I have renders it differently.  

Somebody may have just the answer you're looking for, but in the meantime remember that no scripture is it's own interpretation.  When I encounter these difficult sayings, I stick them in my brain and hold them there for a while until I find another witness in Scripture and Spiritual match.  Until then, for me, it's just something to think about.  

Anyways, a similar and maybe related question has been nagging me lately.  This doesn't really clarify it at present, so I'm going to have to leave that one alone,

What I think is that The Lord's question is about the state of Cain's anger and  countenance (his reaction) to the passing over of his sacrifice.

Here's the LITV rendering:

Gen 4:5  And He did not look to Cain and to his offering. And Cain glowed greatly with anger, and his face fell.
Gen 4:6  And Jehovah said to Cain, Why have you angrily glowed, and why has your face fallen?
Gen 4:7  If you do well, is there not exaltation? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is toward you; but you should rule over it.

Cain, your are angry and your face is fallen.  If you do well, isn't the opposite true--exhaltation instead of anger and a fallen countenance (Shame?  Depression?)

If you don't do well...

And I guess that's where your question comes in.  Maybe it's a bit less doctrinal and a bit more practical.  Doing well brings consequences.  Doing not well brings it's consequences too, in anger, shame, depression, cynicism.  I've known quite a bit about that.

Still, it may really SHOULD be rendered 'sin-offering'.  It's harder for me to make sense of it that way, but that doesn't mean it's 'wrong'.  Another one to stick in my brain, maybe.   :D

Maybe that helps...maybe it doesn't muddle too much.

lostANDfound:
interesting.  glowing with anger is a pretty vivid picture.  so dave, are you saying that it would have been well with cain if he had humbley accepted that the Almighty Creator wasn't "looking to" him or his offering?  it had nothing to do with his offering, and everything to do with his reaction to it being passed over?
i'm thankful for these questions/answers on this forum, revealing the assumptions i make as i read.
-vicki   

Rene:

--- Quote from: newgene87 on October 22, 2011, 11:43:18 AM ---
But is God really saying that he was to rule over sin?? And does that apply to us? And how is that possible when we're flesh and sin dwells within us??

--- End quote ---


Hi Gene,

Here is a scripture and some comments from Ray that may help in your understanding.

René


Romans 6:14:

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." (KJV)

"For sin over you shall not have lordship, for ye are not under law, but under grace."  (YLT)


Here is an email reply from Ray that goes into this further:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6922.0.html

If sin still has "dominion" over you (See Rom. 6), then God has not yet been victorious in your spiritual life. It doesn't mean that he is finished with you, however.  I continued to sin for years after I KNEW what I was doing was sin. I just deceived myself into being thankful for greasy grace.

My Web Master suggested I make an editorial note to my last reply to Jeremy's email on quitting sin. I was not suggesting that we become totally "sinless" when we become spiritually converted. The key is in the word I used to reference Romans chapter 6 in which it is stated that sin shall not have "DOMINION" over our lives. Now there is a difference between consciously living sin free, and committing sins even when we consciously determine not to sin. It is not humanly possible to live totally sin free.

Ray

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