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[Craig]

That's my story Stacey and I'm sticking with it

Craig

[Stacey]

Well OK Craig. I don't and can't see it that way. If that's how it is then that's just one more thing to be burned out of me at a later date. You've brought up a few questions in my mind now. Thanks. 

[DougE6]

I would say the vast majority on the forum have already tried working their way to election and have failed miserably.  Most have been down the road of going church multiple times a week.  Have tithed religiously, served as teachers, deacons, elders, music, volunteers, etc. etc.  Depending on the denomination they have kept religious days and holidays.  Refrained from whatever vice the leader of the church declares forbidden and a whole host of rules and regulations.  They worked and strived very hard and then one day by the grace of God they realized that no matter how hard they worked they are nothing but dung.  God showed them that works will not mend their wicked and sinful hearts.  

This is in no doubt true. And as a moderator, you have a unique position to know. But we all know there is VAST difference between works of the flesh, the works of the carnal religious mind, CONTRASTED to the works of Jesus that He does through us. The difference is between wood hay and stubble, and gold silver and precious stones. All carnal works are dung. But what works we do in LOVE in JESUS, are FAR from dung.

1Co 3:11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Even people who are burned out and tired, can be completely restored to do works through Jesus in them, and the fire will prove those works to be gold silver and precious stones.

We can agree to disagree, and I will not contest for this point of view anymore in this thread, but I do think the greatest reward of gold silver and precious stones  is the first resurrection, to be with Christ. And the desire of which I was speaking is not the carnal religious hate of the crusader or the carnal aspirations of the church leader, which you brought up. It is the Pearl of Great Price, for which we are instructed to sell all that we have to obtain;  is to have a clean and pure undefiled conscience, and a LOVE for Jesus beyond anything else.

[Ireland]

Doug, so glad you want to serve the Lord and obtain your reward. Let's strive to get there and by his grace we will. Okay, we got it and please do not mention this for at least a few weeks . Maybe just discuss subjects that will benefit others. You know that there are many topics we can all share and discuss here. Again, we know you long to please the Lord as should all of us. We should be aiming to mature in him and grow in our knowledge of the mysteries that Paul often taught about. Peter even mentioned that Paul taught things that were not easily understood. Please, just move on from telling us about your goals and love etc. Long to edify someone else..........................

[Akira329]

Hey Stacey,
I think this verse can help you along with what Craig said.
Pro 28:26  He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.(I love Proverbs!!!)
How can you walk wisely except for the heart of God? Not your heart but the heart of the Father.

Its also one of those relative and absolute things in scripture.
A man may say he seeks the righteousness of God, even Christ tells us to seek after righteousness but;.....
Mat 6:33  But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;...........
God says none seek him.
Rom 3:11  There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

You must believe both.
How is it that a man seeks out God except God puts that desire in him.
It never came from you.
The natural man does not seek out the things of the Father.

A lot of what Craig said begins with the belief that your heart is like God's heart or that you're filled with the fruit of the spirit.
Then you begin YOUR WORK, YOUR PLANS, YOUR VISION, YOU GOAL to change the world into you. Again, it all becomes about you and what your doing for the kingdom sake. So you begin to boast about your works!

Stacey I hope this helps!
Antaiwan

Oh by the way.....I love Google Chrome!!
Right in the middle of replying, the power went off and I thought my post was lost.
Restore in Google restores everything!!! (just had to throw that in there!LOL)

Oh what this thread is about...........
In regards to humans being ancestors of apes,
There are a number of plants and animals that have exactly the same number of chromosomes as humans. Why aren't scientist going around saying we are related to potatoes and rabbits??? Need more info!

[Deborah-Leigh]

We need no longer follow after the theories nor implications of men of theological worldliness. All have fallen short of the glory of God so we need no longer glory in one another, nor compete to be the greatest in the Kingdom of God.

All things are ours.

“My how times have changed. Tell a person to “go to hell” today, and it is an insult of the highest level. Tell a person back in the dark ages of England to “go to hell” and he would probably go to a cool cellar and bring some potatoes for dinner. For that is where they stored potatoes-in hell.” LOF 16A ~

Quantum Science is understanding better what it means that God will be all in one, not because God is not THE ALL and ONE, and doesn’t change, but IS, from Whom ALL IS, WAS and SHALL BE, from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Arcturus

[Stacey]

Antaiwan, hey. I don't want to turn Musicman's thread into a Q and A for Stacey. I'm gonna reply to your response and leave it at that. P.M me if you have anything to add. Hopefully my reply here will clarify and be sufficient enough to show I haven't really fallen off the wagon so to speak. I know and totally agree with what you said and the scripture you mentioned.

With what heart did Paul desire to serve and love Christ? The one he had before or after the Lord encountered him on the road to Damascus? Absolutely not the one before his conversion. This is why the "huh" in my first reply to Craig. How can anyone with a un-wanting heart receive the prize from God? 

It was still his heart only it was a new one that God placed in him to began the great work I mentioned in my first reply to Craig. It was not the Jesus hating heart he had before the Light of Christ showed him the error of his ways but the new heart that God gave him to pursue, go after, long for, run the race to the finish with the heart that did want the prize with every ounce of being more than anything else in the world.

Isn't it gonna basically work the same way for everyone else? First the Light will show the error of our ways, then the change of heart and then the pursuit of the prize? Isn't that what we are all doing right now? Pursuing the prize with new hearts of understanding? If I am wrong about this then I am totally wrong on almost everything I have learned. I hope not.

To sum it up, I most likely, probably, maybe didn't but absolutely surely must have  , some how, some way to some degree or another, misunderstood Craig's words!  Ooops, sorry for that Craig.

It's not the first time or the last time I will not get what someone says around here. Maybe I'll learn to hold my fingers (tongue) better but, consider this a fair warning: I might reply in error! 

[musicman]

Musicman, so you believe in evolution huh? That's great, glad that's working for ya. I don't. Never have and I don't reckon I will unless God decides I will. I looked up the guy who wrote the book you mentioned. He has some interesting stuff but I don't care to listen to it. Short, very short attention span.

I guess I do Stacy.  How's it working out?  Probably a little better than my sense of humor.  Not to worry.  There is nothing random about evolution and it has nothing to do with copying errors being held on to that may be beneficial because copying errors probably never are beneficial.  What I find evolution to be is very foward thinking and shows an absolute need for design.  It also probably happens way too quickly on a time scale to even hint at random mutation.  How could bacteria have developed a way to digest nilon if it hasn't existed that long?  First off, we can pretty well accept that Adam was not the first human being, his seed could not have been what we know to be as ancient man as ancient man did not live hundreds of years.  Closer to 20 or 30.  There are similarities between the great apes and man that are more convincing to me than similar DNA.

[indianabob]

Musicman,
Lots to think about in your message above.
One thing comes to mind in your remark about bacteria developing a way to digest nylon if it hasn't existed that long. No problem my friend, the bacteria have what are called by research scientist, Cryptic Genes. That is their genetic structures are designed to be adaptable to changes in their environment. A certain bacterium can exist on pond scum in the dark jungle for centuries and then when exposed to daylight and certain industrial waste materials, suddenly begin to activate genetic materials that were always present but needed sunlight to stimulate adaptation.

My experience with this phenomenon was with the remediation of TNT contaminated soils around the Joliet Arsenal, in Illinois. We simply added sugar in the form of dilute molasses to the soil and the existing bacteria ate the TNT explosives converting them to air and water. Similarly Nylon is composed of Nitrogen, Carbon, Oxygen and Hydrogen; or air and water. So breaking it down with the necessary catalyst is really simple. Not easy, but simple.
Apparently God anticipated all manner of answers to our needs. Or else God doesn't let us invent stuff that He can't remove from the environment when He is ready. I think that we will find that that includes Radiation poison.
Ole Indianabob

[musicman]

I think what we are finding is that all life has little adaptative qualities built in.  But what I don't think people realize is that we have so many genes for organs that we don't have.  Countless genes are inactive.  And junk DNA is not junk after all.  I think it is clear that changes were rather sudden and not gradual at all.  I think life always had the capabilities do change.  And I think the process is very much like what God would create.  The ingrediants were always there.

[Dennis Vogel]

I think what we are finding is that all life has little adaptative qualities built in.  But what I don't think people realize is that we have so many genes for organs that we don't have.  Countless genes are inactive.  And junk DNA is not junk after all.  I think it is clear that changes were rather sudden and not gradual at all.  I think life always had the capabilities do change.  And I think the process is very much like what God would create.  The ingrediants were always there.

If this is true (and I have no reason to doubt what you say here) then it is truly amazing.

[DougE6]

A certain bacterium can exist on pond scum in the dark jungle for centuries and then when exposed to daylight and certain industrial waste materials, suddenly begin to activate genetic materials that were always present but needed sunlight to stimulate adaptation.

The largest amount of DNA in the genome has been called, rather derisively IMHO, "junk DNA" because when the term was created in 70s there was no known function for it.  And for the last several decades this "junk" DNA was considered merely an artifact of evolution, old discarded DNA no longer useful and a very good proof that evolution (the kind of evolution that needs no God or superintending intelligence) would certainly produce as a "cast off" of sorts.  Scientists had discovered/cracked the DNA code, learned how DNA language coded for various amino acids which in turn were the recipe for proteins and enzymes. This coding (non junk) DNA was very valuable to the organism and needed to be closely conserved during replication. This coding DNA was ONLY 3% or a bit more of the entire DNA strand.  The proteins and enzymes coded by this DNA had to be built in very exact and precise ways else they would not work and the organism would die.  But interestingly, we NOW find the other 95%+ of "junk DNA" is also carefully conserved in replication.  Why would this be, if it was truely, merely, junk? Why should th body conserve junk?  If it was not actually providing no useful information, or coding for anything important? This was/is a real puzzle.

Now we have recently learned that this junk DNA has a striking resemblance to the structure of human language! We also know that this "junk" DNA is involved in switching on and off various groups of genes. They seem to be involved in regulation. They also seem much freer to change or mutate in response to stimuli of sorts. It may be where fast evolutionary change comes from. It may be when it is time to change a species dramatically, the information, the foresight, the next phase, was already put into the organsim as if someone knew this genetic information would be invaluable someday.  If this is true, there is no explanation in current science how evolution could of put anticipatory powers and information into the genome before it was needed. Athiestic Evolution without God, has no objective in mind. So how could there by objectives placed in the organism, like teological purpose?  maybe by God?  . I am glad, so glad, God did not make me an ignoble vessel, one whose understanding is so dark that they could think this marvelous world came about without God shepherding and creating every step of the way. Just my .02

[River]

Interesting stuff but it could all be made up and who would know the difference. Most of what we know is parroted information. Most don't have an actual hand in the work or witness or even know remotely what they are really speaking of. I too love trying to figure out the mysteries. But as in my daily life I find if I am blessed enough to be active in kindness, helping, encouraging etc. then it trumps knowing these mysteries.

[Ireland]

Doug, that explosion you just heard was my head lol. Your explanation actually made some sense to this novice. I always remember the scripture that says the visible represents the invisible. Alot of these topics interest me because they show the awesomeness of God and his universe. I really believe these super computers actually show us a hint of God's abilities to process so much information and program all the actions that ever existed. WOW!