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ashes under the feet of the saints?
JohnMichael:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on December 14, 2011, 12:40:57 AM ---
Hey Bob
There's no such thing as "annihilation" ~ conformation... yes... to the Image of Christ.
... "annihilation" no. That's Jehovah Witness jargon.
Annihilation, and death, is overcome in the Resurrection and the Life, non lost Glory of God. ~ :)
--- End quote ---
And the JWs got it from Egyptian pagan god worship hogwash :). The Egyptians believed that when one died, one's heart was weighed against a feather (which symbolized their pagan goddess of truth - Maat). If the heart weighed more than the feather, a crocodile ate the heart, and thus the person ceased to exist.
Bob, I'm thinking the Lord used figurative language when He said that sinners would be ashes under the feet of the saints in Mal 4:3.
(Jewish Publication Society version)
Mal 4:1 (3:19) For, behold, the day cometh, it burneth as a furnace; and all the proud, and all that work wickedness, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall set them ablaze, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:3 (3:21) And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I do make, saith the LORD of hosts.
What comes to mind is how the enemies of the Lord (and thus His saints also) will be brought into subjection to Him. They will be like ashes under foot. I don't think that means literally though.
Notice how verse 1 lines up perfectly with 1 Cor 3:12-15:
(WNT)
1Co 3:12 And whether the building which any one is erecting on that foundation be of gold or silver or costly stones, of timber or hay or straw--
1Co 3:13 the true character of each individual's work will become manifest. For the day of Christ will disclose it, because that day is soon to come upon us clothed in fire, and as for the quality of every one's work-- the fire is the thing which will test it.
1Co 3:14 If any one's work--the building which he has erected--stands the test, he will be rewarded.
1Co 3:15 If any one's work is burnt up, he will suffer the loss of it; yet he will himself be rescued, but only, as it were, by passing through the fire.
And WHO does the burning?
Heb 12:29 For our God is also a consuming fire.
Hope this helps.
In Him,
John
Rene:
--- Quote from: indianabob on December 13, 2011, 10:35:32 PM ---
However, that leaves the subject open to those who believe that if sinners become ashes then they must have gone through a literal burning and have been scattered on the surface of the earth for saints to tread upon.
--- End quote ---
Hi Bob,
You have received some very good answers to your original question. The only thing I would add is that if you are trying to convince someone that there is no "literal burning" of people in judgment, you will not be able to do so unless the Lord opens up their understanding and then they will see it and believe it.
The Elect will be Judges in the next age, and this judgment will be as if through fire. It is a real fire, but it's not literal. ;)
René
Here is an email from Ray that may help as well:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7361.0.html
Dear Andy:
A couple of Installments back in my Hell series I explained Matt. 10:28 in detail. You did not read it. You have several concepts all twisted up. You ask why there can't be spiritual fire? Not only can there be, there IS. That's the whole point of this whole thing of Judgment by "fire." The "fire" is SPIRITUAL FIRE. I have stated and shown it from the Scriptures, over and over and over again. All of the "fiery" trials that the Apostles speak of are not LITERAL PHYSICAL FIRE that burn and kill the physical skin and flesh. I really don't know what to say that I haven't said that would make it clear to you. You are missing a lot, I'm afraid. You need to read the whole Lake of Fire series, and maybe it will come clearer for you. You need to pray for spiritual understanding of spiritual things.
God be with you,
Ray
PS No, Andy, there is NOT a physical place with streets of physical gold and gates of pearls. These too are all figurative and symbolic. The New Jerusalem is not a PHYSICAL city.
Gina:
Right on, Rene! Real indeed.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: indianabob on December 13, 2011, 10:35:32 PM ---Thank you friends for your comments.
However, that leaves the subject open to those who believe that if sinners become ashes then they must have gone through a literal burning and have been scattered on the surface of the earth for saints to tread upon. I suppose it is similar to the doctrine of annihilation instead of the error of eternal burning (torture).
Any further exposition would be appreciated.
Indiana Bob
--- End quote ---
Bob, another point to consider is the Bible uses figurative language to express many truths. Doctrines such as the one of annihilation come about when theologians teach that the figurative language in the Bible is to be interpreted literally.
Marques
indianabob:
Thank you all for the additional advice and counsel.
I will be cautious where I use it.
Indiana Bob
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