Poor in spirit

[Gina]

Hi Gina, and you're right.

But.

What about this view of the prism?

Does what you say make the beast any less true, any less ravaging?

To think on it isn't necessarily 'dwelling' on it, but, if that's where God puts our heart 'for a time'..........doesn't that do exactly what it is he wants?........makes him greater, more so, than we ever first believed?

Sounds necessary, at least to me it does.  

God causes all  That's true.  Whatever happens could not have not happened.  

gk wrote:

To think on it isn't necessarily 'dwelling' on it,

True.  That's kinda what I meant when I said, it's good to have an honest estimation of ourselves, but rather fix our minds on the things which are pure, lovely, true, good report, etc., as God grants us the ability to fix our minds, which takes takes practice.  Much easier said than done.  

God bless you, gk.

[Joel]

The fiery trials we face, and the beast within can reduce our spirits to sackcloth, and ashes. But we also can be encouraged that the Lord has our remedy.

Isaiah 61:3 - To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.


Joel

[Deborah-Leigh]

Beautiful, heavenly offering Joel! 

Jer 31:34  ..... saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

God shall remember no more our sins!

Ps 139 : 12 ...darkness and light are both alike to thee...

All is perfect in Gods eyes. for God is all perfection! There is non like Him!~

[acomplishedartis]

I never said that no spirit has consciousness. OUR spirit has no consciousness. God IS Spirit and God is conscious, but we are NOT GOD. We only have a form of spirit in us to keep us alive. When converted God gives us yet ANOTHER SPIRIT which is called the HOLY Spirit, and it effects out consciousness, but does not keep us conscious at death, as that requires resurrection.

Notice I Cor. 2;11--"For what man man knows the things of a man, except [for] the spirit of man which is IN HIM? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God [in him]."

It is only when "the spirit of man" is "IN HIM" that he has consciousness and "knows the things of a man."  OUT of him, the spirit of man knows no anything:  "For the living know [when the spirit is still IN man] that they shall die: but the DEAD [when the spirit is returned to God--see Chapt. 3:19-20]  KNOW NOT ANY THING...."  (Ecc. 9:5).

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2168.msg17408.html#msg17408

Okay, I think we are talking about two different things on the past comments:

When talking about, blessed are the poor in spirit...

1. Is it talking about consider our selves poor in the 'Spirit of God (the Holly spirit)' since we are still in the flesh and since we are not to think higher of our selves than we must?

or

2. Is it talking about being poor in 'the spirit of man'...



I know that understanding the concept of spirit is hard, because what the media has always show us, as a little ghost flying out of the person, as if a human spirit could be visible and have his own consciousness. But this is not the way it is, as most of the media is a lie.

I have thought about examples to try to understand this concept better but I still have to meditate more on it.

One thing that comes to mind to understand the concept spirit, is when we met a brother that believe and behave or act very similar than another one, and you say, ha! this persona reminds me so so much of that person... it is like they have the same spirit... In Jesus times, people whom met Jesus and where alive after his death and then knew their disciples, they could said; this Peter reminds me so much of that Jesus... it is like they have the same spirit. And actually they had the same spirit.

[Deborah-Leigh]

I never said that no spirit has consciousness. OUR spirit has no consciousness. God IS Spirit and God is conscious

Hi Moises

Great contribution you quoted. ~   

So..."OUR spirit has no consciousness"....

God never sleeps. God's Spirit, is conscious. "God is conscious."

God might be said to be Consciousness. Jesus said : Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

So...when the Spirit of God that is awake, awakens our unconscious spirit...then we wake up to become more as God is...

Some Scriptures that point to this are ~

Rom 13:11  And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Eph 5:14  Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. ~

[jong]

Maybe God does have a soul also, just that His  consciousness is beyond comprehension

•Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

•Matthew 12:18Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

•Hebrews 10:38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

[Deborah-Leigh]

His consciousness is beyond comprehension

Nicely said jong! 

......by their fruits, those who have ears and eyes, who hear and see, the things of which we speak, God has revealed by His Spirit...as the wind, born of the Spirit!

It is not as those who profess  I caught the wind....it's in my box! LOL 

You can catch a cold. LOL ~  You can't catch the wind!

[GaryK]

When talking about, blessed are the poor in spirit...

1.

A: Is it talking about consider our selves poor in the 'Spirit of God (the Holly spirit)' since we are still in the flesh and since

B: we are not to think higher of our selves than we must?

or

2. Is it talking about being poor in 'the spirit of man'...

A possible answer(s) to #1:

A: It seems I remember Ray writing on receiving the holy spirit in increments and honestly I'm not sure where that particular writing is, or a part of, but I'm pretty sure about it.    If that's true, then one could look upon themselves as being 'poor' in the holy spirit.

B: Ray's good story on King Nebuchadnezzar answers part B.  (but you knew that already)


2: Since every person alive, who has ever lived and who will ever live has a 'spirit', then they have 100% spirit.   Can't imagine anyone walking arount with 58.324% spirit................. but we all know God works in mysterious ways.    So, I'd say at this point to answer #2 you need to refer back to the posting of Marques and the initial posting of Arcturus, or poor in spirit is what they say.    And, I would almost be inclined to think those measurements of 'poor in spirit' will be given in increments.     Otherwise somebody.....somewhere............ is damn near perfection..............and I'd like to meet her.

But then again, I may be one of those 58.324%er's........... so your mission is to add a grain of salt <here>.

[acomplishedartis]

When talking about, blessed are the poor in spirit...

1.

A: Is it talking about consider our selves poor in the 'Spirit of God (the Holly spirit)' since we are still in the flesh and since

B: we are not to think higher of our selves than we must?

or

2. Is it talking about being poor in 'the spirit of man'...

A possible answer(s) to #1:

A: It seems I remember Ray writing on receiving the holy spirit in increments and honestly I'm not sure where that particular writing is, or a part of, but I'm pretty sure about it.    If that's true, then one could look upon themselves as being 'poor' in the holy spirit.

B: Ray's good story on King Nebuchadnezzar answers part B.  (but you knew that already)


2: Since every person alive, who has ever lived and who will ever live has a 'spirit', then they have 100% spirit.   Can't imagine anyone walking arount with 58.324% spirit................. but we all know God works in mysterious ways.    So, I'd say at this point to answer #2 you need to refer back to the posting of Marques and the initial posting of Arcturus, or poor in spirit is what they say.    And, I would almost be inclined to think those measurements of 'poor in spirit' will be given in increments.     Otherwise somebody.....somewhere............ is damn near perfection..............and I'd like to meet her.

But then again, I may be one of those 58.324%er's........... so your mission is to add a grain of salt <here>.

So we are told that Jesus had the spirit with out measure, as no one in this life.

"BLESSED are the poor in spirit..." and Blessed are the humble, go hand in hand...  I don't think that particular verse is talking about the poor in the spirit of man.

Blessed are the meek, the merciful, the pure in heart, the peace-makers, and non of these are a 100% meek, merciful, pure in heart, and peacemakers, I too believe it is given in increments.

[Kat]

When talking about, blessed are the poor in spirit...

1.

A: Is it talking about consider our selves poor in the 'Spirit of God (the Holly spirit)' since we are still in the flesh and since

B: we are not to think higher of our selves than we must?

or

2. Is it talking about being poor in 'the spirit of man'...

A possible answer(s) to #1:

A: It seems I remember Ray writing on receiving the holy spirit in increments and honestly I'm not sure where that particular writing is, or a part of, but I'm pretty sure about it.    If that's true, then one could look upon themselves as being 'poor' in the holy spirit.

Hi gk, I was looking for where Ray spoke about "increments"... I don't think he was speaking about the Holy Spirit coming in increments or at least I couldn't find where he did. But here is a place he did use 'increments' to explain something.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3849.0 ------------------------

Jesus Christ never converted a person in His whole ministry.  It's just amazing.  If you said that in a church they'd be throwing rotten tomatoes at you.  But in His whole ministry Jesus Christ never converted one person! Not one!

The 11 second sinner's prayer... they have not a clue what they are talking about!!

When came around Pentecost time though, a whole bunch of them were converted, about 120 of them.  But Christ was leading them up to that.  And He's probably leading some of us up to that.

All these things take a lifetime.  We're going to live "the seals."  A third part of the man died... that's a third part of the man in us that is going to die, a third part of the carnality.  God works in increments, He wipes out some of the trees and then He burns some of the grass... what is the trees and the grass?  These are all things in us. We have islands, and mountains, and trees, and grass. All of these are belief systems and ideas and doctrines and philosophies of life and all these things. And they are all going to be burned out and broken down and destroyed. All of those seven seals, seven trumpets, seven plagues, they are all things that must happen in our lives.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So here Ray was speaking of how the burning out the carnality comes in increments. The Holy Spirit us given to the Elect now as a earnest, that is a promise/guarantee of being in the first resurrect at Christ's return. So I think the earnest gives us all we need now to be prepared and we will fully receive/know only when we are resurrected into the kingdom.

1Co 13:12  For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall fully know even as I also am fully known.

Here is a email with more on this earnest of the Spirit.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2619.0.html --------------------------

The Spirit of Christ is eternal, and when we have the Spirit of Christ we have eternal life in us. But....BUT,
we have only the "earnest" of that spirit, and it will not keep our physical bodies from dying. But when we have the earnest of God's spirit, it is proof that there is more to come:  "In Whom you also trusted after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that you believed, you were SEALED WITH THAT HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE.  Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL [not now; not yet, but later] the redemption of the purchased POSSESSION, unto the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:13-14).

And that takes place at the resurrection of the saints at the last trump. One more point: although we are promised "eonian" life, nonethless, the spirit that gives us "immortality," IS ETERNAL.

God be with you,
Ray

[bluzman]

On Sept 6,2009, I posted a question on Spirit.
To this day I have no more of an idea of how to explain what that means than I did before I posted.
Someone, can't recall, maybe Einstein, said that if one really understands something, then they should be able to explain to their grandmother.
I cannot understand how magnets attract or repel one another. I cannot understand electricity. I have welded for many years with electric and gas torches. How long I have looked at that arc through a 2x4 lens and watched a puddle of metal flowing, time wise, I don't know. Hundreds of hours. I have to believe that it really is God forming these metals together, and somewhere past the electron and protons there are the building blocks of the Universe, namely God.
" With God's Help I was born into a poor family".    Jewish author unknown.
P.s. I hope that I am part of this poor family.

[GaryK]

Hi gk, I was looking for where Ray spoke about "increments"... I don't think he was speaking about the Holy Spirit coming in increments or at least I couldn't find where he did. But here is a place he did use 'increments' to explain something.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3849.0 ------------------------

Jesus Christ never converted a person in His whole ministry.  It's just amazing.  If you said that in a church they'd be throwing rotten tomatoes at you.  But in His whole ministry Jesus Christ never converted one person! Not one!

The 11 second sinner's prayer... they have not a clue what they are talking about!!

When came around Pentecost time though, a whole bunch of them were converted, about 120 of them.  But Christ was leading them up to that.  And He's probably leading some of us up to that.

All these things take a lifetime.  We're going to live "the seals."  A third part of the man died... that's a third part of the man in us that is going to die, a third part of the carnality.  God works in increments, He wipes out some of the trees and then He burns some of the grass... what is the trees and the grass?  These are all things in us. We have islands, and mountains, and trees, and grass. All of these are belief systems and ideas and doctrines and philosophies of life and all these things. And they are all going to be burned out and broken down and destroyed. All of those seven seals, seven trumpets, seven plagues, they are all things that must happen in our lives.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So here Ray was speaking of how the burning out the carnality comes in increments. The Holy Spirit us given to the Elect now as a earnest, that is a promise/guarantee of being in the first resurrect at Christ's return. So I think the earnest gives us all we need now to be prepared and we will fully receive/know only when we are resurrected into the kingdom.

1Co 13:12  For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall fully know even as I also am fully known.

Here is a email with more on this earnest of the Spirit.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2619.0.html --------------------------

The Spirit of Christ is eternal, and when we have the Spirit of Christ we have eternal life in us. But....BUT,
we have only the "earnest" of that spirit, and it will not keep our physical bodies from dying. But when we have the earnest of God's spirit, it is proof that there is more to come:  "In Whom you also trusted after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that you believed, you were SEALED WITH THAT HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE.  Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL [not now; not yet, but later] the redemption of the purchased POSSESSION, unto the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:13-14).

And that takes place at the resurrection of the saints at the last trump. One more point: although we are promised "eonian" life, nonethless, the spirit that gives us "immortality," IS ETERNAL.

God be with you,
Ray

Hi Kat,


Knowing NOW that god doesn't give us his spirit in increments has destroyed the foundation of my belief in BT, Ray, and this forum.   Unfortunately I'll now have to re-re-convert and go back to attending the snake-handling-demon-whipping seminars and suppers...thereof....on Wednesdays, local baptist time.




Read this, I'm pretty sure it's where I got the 'increments' from, not that it's right that I intrepreted it as 'increments' but I've been known to call geese.....ducks 


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=10467.0


Dear Beth:
        The "Kingdom of God" also known as the "Kingdom of the heavenS," is God'd domain, where He resides.  To the degree that we have God's Spirit is the degree to which we reside in this Kingdom. At present we are merely begotten, awaiting a new birth into His Kingdom. This Kingdom has no end after the physical has passed away. Etc.  Too big a subject for an email.
        God be with you,
        Ray"




Not sure how this helps anyone understand the 'poor in spirit', but consider it another morsel for discussion.............or not.

[Deborah-Leigh]

....we repent in increments....http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.html

We mature, gradually.

To the degree that we have God's Spirit, might be saying to the degree that we have matured or repented....~

I don't see God, standing there with a test tube, from which one drop at a time, of His Spirit into given to us....yet it could be said, that is what it feels like sometimes.... relatively speaking. ~

Like waking up in the morning. You might be lying in bed fast asleep and then you wake up....s-l-o-w-l-y...~ ...not fully dressed and on your feet ready to get married the same day, like happened to Eve LOL...~ ...okay...okay...she wasn't clothed...~

Hang in there gk....I think you're on to something good!

[Deborah-Leigh]

Thank you for sharing your research Moises. 

I particularly enjoyed from point 7 ..."that which constitutes a person's intangible being..."

The lust of the flesh is for the TANGIBLES...the literal visible forms of car, house, status associated with bank account accumulations, aquisitions of flesh and forms of flesh etc...

The intangible being, is certainly the attitudes of love joy and peace etc!

Blessings