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[Gina]

That's probably the stupidest question, but I have to ask.   Thank you for your responses.

[mharrell08]

That's probably the stupidest question, but I have to ask.   Thank you for your responses.

When you no longer have the desire to do the carnal activities you enjoyed once before. Being converted works in increments, God giving you the victory over one vice at a time.

[onelovedread]

I suspect that for me that's going to take more than the time I have left in this life.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Nonsense Gina...

Time doesn't give you the victory. God does! Remember Damascus? LOL 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Ops...sorry Gina...wrong nonsence!...That should have been addressed to Onelovedread....forgive the tippsy party slip! LOL

[Deborah-Leigh]

G. ...as for "stupidest questions"...I don't think there is such a thing! LOL

[Gina]

I know for sure that I'm being pulled out of the world.  

I was five when my father picked me up and stuck me on the roof of our shed to keep me from annoying him while he tried to relax with the family in our backyard one summer afternoon in Maryland (it was piping hot that day, and the shed roof was covered with those black shingles).  I thought I was just being playful, but my dad was in no mood!  I remember how mad at myself I became because instead of making my father happy, I made him angry, and instead of being able to play with my family, I was forced to be separate from them--all I could do was watch and observe.  And my dad pretended I didn't exist and ignored every plea from me to give me another chance.   lol   To a five-year-old, a half hour seems like an eternity.  Consequently, I never annoyed my dad like that again.  

As an adult I can see that that was likely the beginning of God's "chastisement" (Heb. 12:6) on me.

It's not easy being a lump of clay.   But I'm sure learning a lot! 

[Deborah-Leigh]

There's a saying....Fire is a poor Master but a good Servant.

If fire masters you, it will burn you out of hand.

If you have mastered fire, then....as a Ministering Spirit!....

Heb 1:13  But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Heb 1:14  Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Who shall be heirs of salvation? Everyone! Non lost!

English translation?

The mind will individually, badger, harrass and plague the conscience to succumb into bondage and imprisonment. Part of the process. All meant to be. Nothing wrong.

A conscience set free, is free in deed. Who the Lord sets free, right...  

Heb 1:9  Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

If you are miserable, unkind, suspicious, fearful and hateful of other God has created...if you are unforgiving, resentful, unappreciative and deceitful...then hey...guess what....You're miserable!  

If you are joyful, trusting, delighting in the Lord of Heaven and Earth, appreciative of life and love, joy and peace, kindness and goodness...then guess what...You've woken up!  

Glory to God!......for family! We are not alone! No one is alone...ever!

God's with us!...the True Light of Love and Joy.

A GREAT question Gina. Thank you~

Hoping others will bring their own UNIQUE perspectives, colors and light of joy in perceptions to answer you further!

[Gina]

There's a saying....Fire is a poor Master but a good Servant.

If fire masters you, it will burn you out of hand.

If you have mastered fire, then....as a Ministering Spirit!....

Heb 1:13  But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Heb 1:14  Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Who shall be heirs of salvation? Everyone! Non lost!

English translation?

The mind will individually, badger, harrass and plague the conscience to succumb into bondage and imprisonment. Part of the process. All meant to be. Nothing wrong.

A conscience set free, is free in deed. Who the Lord sets free, right...  

Heb 1:9  Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

If you are miserable, unkind, suspicious, fearful and hateful of other God has created...if you are unforgiving, resentful, unappreciative and deceitful...then hey...guess what....You're miserable!  

If you are joyful, trusting, delighting in the Lord of Heaven and Earth, appreciative of life and love, joy and peace, kindness and goodness...then guess what...You've woken up!  

Glory to God!......for family! We are not alone! No one is alone...ever!

God's with us!...the True Light of Love and Joy.

A GREAT question Gina. Thank you~

Hoping others will bring their own UNIQUE perspectives, colors and light of joy in perceptions to answer you further!

Yes--God is definitely speaking to me.  These are the very things I've been meditating on for quite some time now, Deb.  Thank you so much.

Thank you everyone!

Muahhh my brothers and sisters!

[Deborah-Leigh]

You are always welcome Gina! 

xx

[River]

That's probably the stupidest question, but I have to ask.   Thank you for your responses.

When you no longer have the desire to do the carnal activities you enjoyed once before. Being converted works in increments, God giving you the victory over one vice at a time.

 How is one to know when it is "no longer" since one can't live eternally? What then of those who don't have a desire so say for 20 years and then one day it changes? And since we are carnal creatures with a physical organ called the brain and this chemistry can be changed due to life changes, injury etc. how can it be judged on "desire"? Is not desire a carnal attribute?

[Deborah-Leigh]

....do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.
Psa 37:4  Delight thyself also in THE LORD; and HE SHALL GIVE THEE THE DESIRES OF THINE HEART. ~

Php 2:13 For it is God Who Works in you, both to WILL and to DO of His Good Pleasure ~

How do you know when you "no longer" have the desire to do the carnal activities you enjoyed once before?

You don't enjoy them anymore!

Why?

Because....while you walked in the ways of this world and obeyed the Prince of the powers of the air, the spirits that are now at work in the hearts of the sons of disobedience--to you God has given Life.
Eph 2:3  Among them all of us also formerly passed our lives, governed by the inclinations of our lower natures, indulging the cravings of those natures and of our own thoughts, and were in our original state deserving of anger like all others.

[jopie]

Hi Gena
I Experience salvation or being converted as a process, which might be different from the way that anybody else experiences it.
I was like Peter and said, "I will never deny you Lord." And then the Lord turned to the rest of his disciples and said, "And you will all leave me."

 I  had to leave the Lord, (sort of come to the end of my rope) before I could come back and He gave me a new heart.
He is teaching me that there is nothing of me and my efforts that is of any use to Him.
He must increase and I must decrease, and that has been my daily experience.
 
It was at that time that the Scriptures started to become alive and meaningful and thus my hunger for the Word increased.
 I began to see with a single eye. (Matthew 6:22)
Seeing beyond what I saw and able to love like I was never able to love before.
These are all things that I as a christian had been striving for all my live.

And so the journey goes, each one has a unique one, we learn from each other and encourage each other.
Hope this makes some sense.

Thank you for posting that question.

In His love,
John.

[mharrell08]

How is one to know when it is "no longer" since one can't live eternally? What then of those who don't have a desire so say for 20 years and then one day it changes?

As to your first question, when one receives immortality, they will live forever. Death will have no more power over them.

As to your 2nd question, Christ said that he who endures 'to the end' will be saved. The end is when you have been through God's judgments and are made righteous.

And since we are carnal creatures with a physical organ called the brain and this chemistry can be changed due to life changes, injury etc. how can it be judged on "desire"? Is not desire a carnal attribute?

No, desire is not a carnal attribute. It is what you desire that condemns one to sin.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Gina]

Marques:

No, desire is not a carnal attribute. It is what you desire that condemns one to sin.

Yes, "...and the books were opened."

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And as Alex/lilitalianboi said, "desires."

Man, when your "book" is opened and you can see inside your heart, and you find you don't like what you see there, but you realize you can't do anything about it, that is flipping disappointing to say the least.  

Here comes da judge...  He comes da judge...

When we no longer have a desire to do the things we once did, it's as if we've gone from being completely okay with soiling our diapers to desiring to use the bathroom.    Though, some kids have to be practically "dragged" to the bathroom by their parents, kicking and screaming, "But I don't wannaaaaa..."

Then, we get to the place where we actually prefer to use the bathroom, and then we actually find that we do use it, because the other way is uncomfortable because it's messy and embarrassing.    

Gee, if only most things in life were so easily converted.

 

[Kat]

Hi River,

How is one to know when it is "no longer" since one can't live eternally? What then of those who don't have a desire so say for 20 years and then one day it changes? And since we are carnal creatures with a physical organ called the brain and this chemistry can be changed due to life changes, injury etc. how can it be judged on "desire"? Is not desire a carnal attribute?

Also remember that God is in control of all things and the Elect are "His workmanship."

Eph 2:10  For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.

God is more than just choosing a people out of the millions of prospects that are in this world, He has picked us from before we were born.

Eph 1:4  according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

Now He is carefully preparing those He has chosen, "preparing a place," every day of our lives and you can be assured "that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion."

John 14:3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

Php 1:6  And I am sure of this, that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

The Elect are in God and that is a very good safe place to be.

John 10:27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
v. 28  I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
v. 29  My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
v. 30  I and the Father are one."

This is why there is no need to worry and fret about anything, just do the best you can and God will "complete" the work He is doing in us.

Mat 6:34  Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow; for tomorrow shall be anxious for its own things. Sufficient to the day is the evil of it.

Php 4:4  Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I say, Rejoice!
v. 5  Let your moderation be known to all men. The Lord is at hand.
v. 6  Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God.
v. 7  And the peace of God which passes all understanding shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Gina]

You can be assured that "that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion."

Yes!!  Thanks, Kat!

[River]

How is one to know when it is "no longer" since one can't live eternally? What then of those who don't have a desire so say for 20 years and then one day it changes?

As to your first question, when one receives immortality, they will live forever. Death will have no more power over them.

As to your 2nd question, Christ said that he who endures 'to the end' will be saved. The end is when you have been through God's judgments and are made righteous.

And since we are carnal creatures with a physical organ called the brain and this chemistry can be changed due to life changes, injury etc. how can it be judged on "desire"? Is not desire a carnal attribute?

No, desire is not a carnal attribute. It is what you desire that condemns one to sin.


Hope this helps,

Marques

 Yes, you could assume someone could live forever but since living is not done all at once, this is what I am asking. A person can have a time frame where they live and don't desire something but then it may come back again. And I don't understand how you say desire can't be a carnal thing. All the sins listed we are told to abstain from are either survival, reproductive etc. actions all humans are subjected to. So are you talking about a future event that no one has experinced yet?  And again we must be talking only of a faith matter because there is no way to prove someone is going to remain converted since no one has yet lived forever.

[Deborah-Leigh]

I LOVE the bathroom diaper analogy Gina!!!!  LOL 

1Jn 2:16  because all that is in the world, the LUST of the flesh, and the LUST of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17  And the world passes away, and the LUST of it, but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Jas 1:14  But each one is tempted by his lusts, being drawn away and seduced by them.

Jas 1:15  Then when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin. And sin, when it is fully formed, brings forth death.....just like a poo in a diaper....~

[mharrell08]

Yes, you could assume someone could live forever but since living is not done all at once, this is what I am asking. A person can have a time frame where they live and don't desire something but then it may come back again. And I don't understand how you say desire can't be a carnal thing. All the sins listed we are told to abstain from are either survival, reproductive etc. actions all humans are subjected to. So are you talking about a future event that no one has experinced yet?  And again we must be talking only of a faith matter because there is no way to prove someone is going to remain converted since no one has yet lived forever.

So your point is: how can one ever be sure they are converted when they could simply backslide at a later date/time? And you also say this must be a 'faith matter' since it would be impossible to prove, seeing that no one has lived forever.

Your first point: The verse I reference above was Christ saying 'he who endures to the end'. So obviously there is an end. One does not wrestle with the flesh for all eternity. There will come a time when God will be finished judging and correcting you, Jesus says so Himself. That is 'the end' that is spoken of, that is when you will be saved. Whether it happens all in this age or continues into the next, the point is, there is an end.

Your 2nd point: I believe God has already proved Himself in this regard. God has proved Himself in more ways imaginable and I don't think it is a stretch to believe He will convert every human soul and KEEP them converted.

Ray talks about how he knows the scriptures are true. One reason he mentions often is the apostle Paul. He truly believes Paul was not a fraud and was who he said he was. My reason is somewhat different. I know the scriptures are true because they talk about me. Only someone who is God could look into my heart and soul, condemn my sin, and turn me around. I see it all over the scriptures...that's how I know they are true to me.

The reason why I mention this is because if you need things 'proved' to you concerning the things that God says, it will happen. Lots of people need proof. God has only given people 'a measure of faith' [Rom 12:3], only a portion. And not everyone's portion is the same. But the point is, it will happen.



Marques