> General Discussions
adultery
Craig:
Where do you come off seeing anyone is being self rightous?? I don't think it was in my post or Marques' or others that I paid attention to. We know we are all sinners, and I don't care what your sin is or anyone elses, but it appeared to me that you don't feel the topic in question was a sin. And that, and the snide remark of why people leave prompted my post. If I misunderstood you then please accept my apology. If not then I hope you understand the point I tried to make.
Craig
Samson:
--- Quote from: River on January 01, 2012, 07:53:50 PM --- Hey Samson,
I have read all the material on this subject. But you know I can't really respond. I really wish the focus could be more on the higher spiritual application of marriage according to what I see in the scriptures. Your keeping it on the level of carnal sex, not I.
--- End quote ---
Hello River,
I hope you were not thinking that I was coming off as "Self Righteous," because My long term record in Marriage stinks, not counting My current Marriage to Pam, the jury isn't finished with this relationship, but so far, so good, maybe God is giving me a break, perhaps He knew I couldn't endure another disappointment in this area, it might kill Me, apparently, He wants Me to still live for awhile. I've suffered the repercussions of Bad Marriages to the point of wishing and praying for Death as a release.
Anyway, You were asking about a Spiritual Marriage, were you referring to the following Scriptures about the way all of Us hope it would or could be. Read Below !
1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 1Pe 3:5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
1Pe 3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
1Pe 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
Pro 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.
Pro 5:19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.
River, Are you referring to a Spiritual Marriage in regards to the above Scriptures, there are probably more. I, for one have always hoped for such, yet I had a Marriage in the past where Our Scriptural Beliefs and the consideration of the above Scriptures and the desire to follow them were not enough for it to work. Why, because of Our circumstances and mainly that We were unevenly yoked in regards to Our personalities, in other words, Our personalities didn't jive, both parties wanted to play Quarterback and there's only one Football. So, what lesson did I learn from all these former Marital experiences: " Personality compatibility is Numero Uno in selecting a Mate. Sex, Religious Beliefs, Looks, Interests, etc are secondary. That's My advice from much experience. If you don't get along with your Husband or Wife, what difference does it make if there's agreement on spiritual belief, Of course, no Man or Woman gets along perfectly, they speak different languages, but if you live in a War Zone because personalities constantly and consistently clash on a regular daily basis, You won't care about as much about these other factors.
Just My experience & hope that God has decided that I've learned enough in this area, Samson, ;D.
adiamondintheson:
Marques
I do not mean or want to belabor the point, but I still am in a quandary as to what actually constitutes a marriage between a man and a woman.
In your answer to my first post regarding Isaac and Rebekah, at the time Isaac took Rebekah to his mothers tent, the scripture does not go into detail but one can assume there were no other people in the tent and there was no additional scripture stating anything regarding a reception or any other type of marriage certificates. Only, that Isaac continued to love Rebekah. You also said this happened over a period of time and I would assume that to be an assumption on your part, unless there is scripture that states the same.
My real issue is, whether a couple gets married in 6 months or 6 years after meeting each other, according to the scripture, Isaac and Rebekah were married without any witnesses, a reception, or marriage papers of any type, as we know it today. Therefore I will return to my basic question as stated in my first post... if a man and a woman love each other, and, assuming they are following Gods will, does there need be anything other than vows exchanged between the two of them and God as their witness?
One last thought in closing, Rebekah's parents gave her away (so to speak) when she left their home to go to marry Isaac. However, in modern day services, the (quote on quote) witnesses are those that stand up with the bride and groom, and more specifically, the best man and the brides maid who sign the marriage certificate as witnesses. I apologize, I had 2 last thoughts. If most churches are corrupt, where would a couple go and who would be the one to read the vows they repeat during the marriage ceremony?
Again, please understand, I am not trying to be contentious, but really am perplexed by some of these scriptural statements and am just looking for clarification, if possible.
Sincerely
Den
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: adiamondintheson on January 03, 2012, 12:11:17 PM ---Marques
I do not mean or want to belabor the point, but I still am in a quandary as to what actually constitutes a marriage between a man and a woman.
In your answer to my first post regarding Isaac and Rebekah, at the time Isaac took Rebekah to his mothers tent, the scripture does not go into detail but one can assume there were no other people in the tent and there was no additional scripture stating anything regarding a reception or any other type of marriage certificates. Only, that Isaac continued to love Rebekah. You also said this happened over a period of time and I would assume that to be an assumption on your part, unless there is scripture that states the same.
My real issue is, whether a couple gets married in 6 months or 6 years after meeting each other, according to the scripture, Isaac and Rebekah were married without any witnesses, a reception, or marriage papers of any type, as we know it today. Therefore I will return to my basic question as stated in my first post... if a man and a woman love each other, and, assuming they are following Gods will, does there need be anything other than vows exchanged between the two of them and God as their witness?
--- End quote ---
Rebekah's family was a witness, as was Abraham's servant who went to find Isaac's wife. We have no record if they did or did not have any type of reception. One could assume either way.
As far as a marriage paper: the scriptures document the marriage between Adam & Eve, there is no other marriage paper spoken of but we don't assume they are not married. Why would we not do the same regarding Isaac & Rebekah? The scriptures stated Isaac took Rebekah as his wife, so why assume it is not true but Adam & Eve is?
Remember Paul's words: 'Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor' [Rom 13:7].
There is a custom regarding marriage that we have now in most of the world: marriage ceremony, vows, witnesses, license, etc.
--- Quote from: adiamondintheson on January 03, 2012, 12:11:17 PM ---One last thought in closing, Rebekah's parents gave her away (so to speak) when she left their home to go to marry Isaac. However, in modern day services, the (quote on quote) witnesses are those that stand up with the bride and groom, and more specifically, the best man and the brides maid who sign the marriage certificate as witnesses. I apologize, I had 2 last thoughts. If most churches are corrupt, where would a couple go and who would be the one to read the vows they repeat during the marriage ceremony?
Again, please understand, I am not trying to be contentious, but really am perplexed by some of these scriptural statements and am just looking for clarification, if possible.
Sincerely
Den
--- End quote ---
In many countries, a judge at a courthouse or other government facility can marry a husband & wife. The couple can also have their own vows and/or the judge can provide.
If a couple is legally married, there are many rights and provisions that the law gives them...some are even biblical. But if a couple are not legally married, they will not have these rights.
For example, if a man divorces a woman, she is entitled certain provisions (alimony) from the ex-husband. This was done even with ancient Israel when they left Egypt. In our times now, without legal standing, the woman would not be entitled anything from the ex-husband. This is just one example of the difference between being legally married and declaring vows with no legal standing.
Marques
River:
Hey Samson,
You wrote "River, Are you referring to a Spiritual Marriage in regards to the above Scriptures, there are probably more. I, for one have always hoped for such, yet I had a Marriage in the past where Our Scriptural Beliefs and the consideration of the above Scriptures and the desire to follow them were not enough for it to work. Why, because of Our circumstances and mainly that We were unevenly yoked in regards to Our personalities, in other words, Our personalities didn't jive, both parties wanted to play Quarterback and there's only one Football."
Yeah I am not talking about a marriage of this sort. Knowing the kingdom of God is not meat and drink and His words are Spirit I'm not concerned with physical rituals. The idea I am speaking of is shown in Ray's response to a question.
http://bible-truths.com/email16.htm#physical
I like this line a lot ""We know longer know Jesus after the FLESH." Jesus HIMSELF said: "The flesh profits NOTHING." "The words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT and they are LIFE."
This is the marriage I am speaking of. This is the higher application, it operates without a pagan pastor, a judge of carnal matters or customs of false religions which flow in our society.
Revelations 17 says it well " With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”
This is the adultery, the fornication, this is the whoredom and the breaking of the marriage vows. It's a parable and to me about our marriage to Babylon. We are in bed with her, we have given ourselves to another, we have fornicated with her and commit adultery by living these things.
As Ray says in quotes below from the same response letter..
"Because there is absolutely nothing physical that can make one spiritual.
Paul baptized at one time in his ministry and then he quit. Why? Because he put away childish things and went on to spiritual maturity.
Paul used to circumcise in his early ministry and then he quit. Why? Because he put away childish things and went on to spiritual maturity.
All physical rituals are CARNAL ordinances, and we are no longer under carnal ordinances."
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