> General Discussions
questions. weighing heavily on my heart
Kat:
Hi JFK,
--- Quote ---I love to sin. I was never forced to sin. I enjoyed every sin I ever committed and will commit.
When I do good, it is not me but God doing good through me. For example, I see nothing wrong with having sex with an unmarried woman.
--- End quote ---
Fornication is just one of the sins of the flesh that we indulge in to our own shame, at some point anyway. Why is it wrong? It is an act of self gratification with no requirement for commitment for what can result, yes there can be negative consequences. But it's also a fore shadow of spirital fornication. Here are a few places where Ray speaks on these things.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5675.0.html --------
Sex outside of marriage is adultery and whoredom, by definition. Of course most people are guilty of that, yours truly included. But that is the fact, it is called adultery and whoredom.
Heb 13:4 Marriage (matrimony) is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled; but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
v
Notice what He contrast it with…… matrimony. The marriage institution is honorable and the bed undefiled - having sex together as a husband and wife. The word undefiled, that’s kind of a semi-negative to me, the word is pure. Why put undefiled? The word is pure. The marriage bed between a husband and wife is pure in God’s eyes. It’s pure to have sex with your wife or your mate, that’s pure.
But notice what the opposite is, if it’s not marriage, “…but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.” If you are not in matrimony in your wedding bed, what does God consider you? A whoremonger and a adulterer. Now do I need to read Rev. 21:8, “All whoremongers will find their place in the Lake of fire.” Is that not clear enough there? People don’t put these things together. If you are not married, but you live together, you are a whoremonger and adulterer.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2798.msg20762.html#msg20762 ------------------
Dear Gloria:
When you say "live together out of convenience" I assume you mean that they fornicate together, but don't want to commit to a long term relationship or a legal marriage, is that correct? It's a sin. Just like any other adultery, fornication, homosexuality, etc. The only legal sex in God's eyes is "married sex."
God be with you,
Ray
thetruth:
Hello,Denise
You have very good questions.And I am sure the Forum members we have here can Answer them for you!But when they do its not like we can Make you understand them.As I know that your aware of that.One thing that comes to mind for me is the Question:If God is not the cause of all these things, will it make you feel better that His not?I mean the alternative is ITS on Man.Which means God love is not enough to stop it!If the guys go in and wipe out all these people and God surely knows about it but doesnt stop them isnt He just as guilty?So God cant win one way or another?Just sayin..
They killed and saw it righeous because God approved it. Why does God see that killing other tribes's pregnant women, adorable babies, little children and so on is righeous.....was one of your questions:
Ezekiel:33:11...God takes NO pleasure in the death of the wicked.
Again:WE can continue to give you Scripture on this....And say "Who is the clay to tell the potter what to do." And on... and on.
And another thing comes to mind is that Ray said... and I am paraphrasing what I think I remember what He said. "Evil has no personal bias'Evil is only evil when used by carnal man against one another.When God uses it.. its for good.Because His using it to transform us from carnal beasts to Image of the Son. Honestly,What does it matter how any of us will die?When the creator has a plan as beautiful as He has ?IF we were one of those woman,men, babies, that got wiped out..and not to be incentive...but whats the big deal if we would then Sleep a while... and then be brought back to life. With the advantage of at least eventually putting on immortality .We all have a calling and purpose and Only GOD knows fully what that is and how it will end in regards to this life!
Just some thoughts my friend,Again I am sure others will give you some more to think on!the truth.
Extol:
http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm
TRUTH NUMBER 8
[A] "Now ALL these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for OUR ADMONITION [to reprove, caution, warn, remind of obligation or duty, etc.], upon whom the ends of the world [‘eons—ages’] are come" (I Cor. 10:11).
"Now these things were OUR EXAMPLES, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted" (I Cor. 10:6).
[C] "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for OUR LEARNING…" (Rom. 15:4).
It is essential that we study the Old Testament Scriptures, for they are often the only key to the New Testament Scriptures. Paul used the Hebrew Scriptures to teach the foolish Galatians the New Covenant promises. Here’s but one great example:
"Tell me, you that desire to be under the law, do you not HEAR the law? For it is written [in Old Covenant Scriptures] that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the FLESH; but he of the freewoman was by PROMISE. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which genders [gives birth] to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar IS mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
"But the Jerusalem which is above is free, which IS the mother of us all.
For it is written, ‘Rejoice, you barren that bear not; break forth and cry, you that travail not: for the desolate has many more children than she which has an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
"Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman SHALL NOT be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not the children of the bondwoman, but of the free." (Gal. 4:21-31).
This is not only an allegory, but it is an allegory containing many metaphors as well. An allegory is when characters or events (such as Sarah and Agar and their children) represent abstract or spiritual ideas or principles. A metaphor is when one thing is said to be something else. (such as Agar actually being mount Sinai, which then represents or corresponds to Jerusalem in bondage). It may seem a little complicated at first, but once one sees all of the aspects of the allegory explained, this principle is quite easy to understand. Nevertheless, it does require the Spirit of God to believe it. It is this very fact (that the Church does not understand or believe this allegory) that the Church continues to believe that God’s true chosen people are STILL, "the children of the bondwoman"—"Jerusalem which NOW IS" over there in the State of Israel. Unbelievable.
Denise,
The story of Sarah and Hagar is only one example from the Old Testament, but I like to view the whole thing as an allegory. As Dave in Tenn reminded us, first the physical and then the spiritual. I hate violence, I hate war, I hate even minor confrontations, so it's hard for me to read the Old Testament violence---unless I'm looking at the spiritual aspect of it. So when I read a passage like the one below, I ask myself: what spiritual lesson is there here?
Deuteronomy 7--1 When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.
These nations have all been long dead, and a literal interpretation of this is of little value to us. But an allegoric interpretation can be very useful. The native peoples of Canaan turned to dust long ago, but I have my own Hittites and Girgashites and Amorites to overcome, and they are alive and well. Like the physical ones were greater than Israel, my spiritual ones are "larger and stronger" than me. As JFK said, it's enjoyable to sin. It's hard not to make treaties with and intermarry with the Hivites and Jebusites in my life. I've been doing it for 27 years. But even so, I live in hope, for I believe that God "has chosen us out of all the peoples on the face of the earth", and I can gladly look forward to the day when God will deliver my enemies unto me, and "destroy them totally". 8)
ez2u:
very sad to say these things have always been here and the word says He order them to be done maybe this is sometimes? its' Him but do we know Jesus like we think we do? will our mind understand what our spirit know? He does kill even woman with babies and little babies and children He lets this happen all the time are these things too hard for us to think about?
Revilonivek:
ez2u-
I take this with a heavy heart.. It bothers me greatly- others say to look at the old testament as allegories, but the point is, if it was true, it's hard to look at it as allegories. But to be frank, the old testament can teach us to move away from the carnal lifestyle, because of the destructive living they led.. making us want to be set apart... but still.. ordering women, children, pregnant women, babies, and so on to be killed just because they are of a different ethnic group and has their own cultures. kills anyone who serves another religion other than His own..Seems very intolerant and unforgiving, and had no mercy. Unless they were justifying their actions believing that God approves it? we see that all the time even now.. 9/11, Salem, Inquisition, and so on?
One thought- since we know that people existed before Adam and Eve on earth but maybe the Jewish genealogy people were the ones God created with special attention in Genesis and the rest of ethnic groups were already there and He holds his Jewish people to a higher standard and is intolerant about inbreeding in the old testament with other ethnic groups? maybe?
I have no idea... Then all the sudden, the same God, (Jesus) in the new testament tells us to be tolerant of other people and turn the other cheek and forgive..love our enemies and so on.. It's so confusing..
From observing other religions that exist.. all religions perceive their own religion as the correct one and others and anyone outside that view are infidels. if Jesus is the Yahweh God of the old testament.. He definitely taught differently now than back in the old testament. That bothers me..
I don't know...
Denise
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