Deserving Death

[Gina]

I guess what's confusing to me is how God says, "dying you shall die." 
We're in a state of decay / dying from the moment of birth.

We aren't born sinning, we were born dying.

I agree:  We sin and we need to be changed and death is the necessary part of that change.

Hi Gina,

I think this little portion of ray might help you understand and put into perspective the "We aren't born sinning" statement you made.

You are also wrong in suggesting that sin did not come into the garden until Eve actually ATE THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT.  Not true.  Let's read it if you haven't read my "lake of fire" series:  "And when the woman saw that the tree was GOOD FOR FOOD [lust of the flesh--this is SIN], and that it was pleasant to THE EYES [lust of the eyes--this is SIN], and a tree to be desired to MAKE ONE WISE [pride of life--this is SIN]....." (Gen. 3:6).  Eve committed EVERY CATEGORY OF SIN IN THE ENTIRE WORLD  B-E-F-O-R-E  SHE EVER ATE OF THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT.  "For ALL that is in the world [A-L-L the sins of the world come under these three categories], THE lust of the flesh, AND THE lust of the eyes, AND THE pride of life, IS NOT OF THE fATHER, BUT IS OF THE WORLD" (I John 2:15).

    "For the creature [Adam and Eve and all their descendants] was MADE [by GOD] subject to VANITY [Margin: 'futility--failure'], not willingly, but by reason of Him [God] Who has subjected the same in HOPE" (Rom. 8:20).

SRC= http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3702.msg27912.html#msg27912

Seems like we are certainly born with everything that makes us sinning machines. Born commiting an act of sin? No... but born with the ability to sin? (Weak hearts!) Very much so. Does this equate to being deserving of death? I don't know, I suppose that's something we all need to ask ourselves. Like some have said, none of us asked to be born. I suppose I could see the argument and where the emotional frustration or confusion comes into play.

This is what I found and I thought it might be worthy to add to this conversation. There is more about this, where ray talks about sin and adam's role in all in it etc.. but I can't find that stuff right now.

Anyhooooooooooooooo thats just what I was thinking this morning. Hope it helps some.

God bless,

Alex

Yes, we were born weak; too weak to resist the pulls of the flesh and do sin -- daily in fact!  No argument there from me my friend!  I'm a sinning machine.  Just ask my friends -- they'll tell ya, if you don't believe me!  haha

But we were NOT born s-i-n-n-i-n-g.  I didn't commit a sin the moment I took my first breath and cried.  I committed sin the moment I heard and understood what the law means when it says love thy neighbor as yourself, and proceeded to break that law.

That's why I said, we are born dying.  It's death that passed upon all men, not sin -- we commit our own sins.  This is true.  Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: ...

Samson answered my question well enough, and I'm satisfied with his response.  But thank you so much for your reply, Alex!

I hope you have a great night.