> General Discussions
The 'have's'......and the 'have-not's'.......
GaryK:
It’s me again Margaret.
Been on my mind for a while. Bear with me.
The ‘have’s and the have not’s’.
If one studies history there are two classes of peoples, the ‘haves’, and the ‘have-nots’. This is a general ‘earthly’ view.
The have’s.
They….have.
There are divisions of have’s, but all in all, they just have. Prosperity. And all things associated that riches can buy. And, there are different levels of prosperity and riches. Nonetheless, they are considered ‘nobility’. History details the nobles because history is written by the nobles, and changed by the nobles, both in gain and suppression, and also in changing the way history is written. Appraising their ‘nobility’, er……exactly how noble they are…. is a different matter, but nonetheless, they are definitely the ‘have’s’, deserved or not-deserved.
The have not’s.
They don’t have.
There are more divisions of the have-nots than the haves, because that’s the genereal population. This division includes slaves up to the commoners. But, they’re all owned in some way, at least in the eyes of nobility. They are the ruled. History is full of them, all down through the ages. They’re the succumbing class.
Think.
In both divisions we know that there are those whom God has called. And there are, perhaps, those whom God has 'chosen’ in both classes. Would God choose from those in the nobility class? I don’t know. Probably. He does, after all, work mysteriously. Would God choose from the commoner class? I don’t know. Probably. In fact, the way my mind thinks, he would choose more from the commoner class. These are the ‘humble’, they’re easier to work with in changing the heart.
.
But WE know, no matter what, all things are controlled by God. Right? We, of BT forum KNOW that. Well, you do. I still fight it tooth and nail. Different matter entire.
But here’s the thing. No-one asks to be born. No-one determines after their birth how their life will be. Prosperity, wisdom, nobility, dumbness, slavery, common place, all of it, no one has control. They THINK they do, but they don’t. God makes a man what he is.
Now.
Why would a loving, merciful, purposeful, planning, ancient, wise, who gives his only son……God………
………give most to so few a people, and less to so many a people, only to judge the minority of either on earth in their life-time so that they may lead and judge the majority of both who had so much less than others during their life on earth?
An exaggeration........here buddy and budd-ette, be born.....have nothing......live pain.....and then just for giggles........I’m going to throw you in the ‘lake of fire’ and burn out everything bad that you have desired on earth (that I designed for you desire to begin with).
What kind of rationale is that? What could possibly be the finer point of the purpose?
What kind of loving, merciful God is that?
Dave in Tenn:
The kind of God who is Spirit and is interested in Spiritual things. None of this fleshly stuff matters--only what is Spiritually accomplished in the lives of individuals. Both the rich and the poor have thier challenges to overcome. All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. There is no one righteous...no not one.
Don't we tend to admire the poor who have Spiritual riches? Isn't that at the core of our 'nostalgia' (misplaced or not) for the 'good old days'? Don't we also admire humility in rich people? Maybe especially these days when the me-generation and the notion of the 'entitled' rich has corrupted so many minds?
All I want to add is to seriously question this notion that the LoF is some 'Universalist' substitute for the Christian Hell with the only difference being that it is temporary. Gary, to my mind the 'division' of people is between those God is saving "now" and those He will save later. That's it. Nothing to brag about except Jesus Christ who died and was raised from the dead.
I know we who have had a "hellish" outlook may tend to cling to bits of that doctrine--maybe because we don't know better yet...maybe because we like it that way.
I also know we who have been raised with 'immortal souls living in heaven and hell' have a hard time truly believing in the importance of Resurrection. Yet, it IS our only hope, and the hope of everybody EVEN THOSE who are being reserved for Judgement after that. The difference is 'belief'. God is the Saviour of ALL MEN...ESPECIALLY those who believe.
Anyways, that's how I divide the world.
John from Kentucky:
Hi gk,
I cannot help you with your questions. I don't have a problem with how God does things. Let's consider a few things.
All human beings are born, given life by God. All human beings die, life taken by God. All human beings will be resurrected back to life by God.
All will have everlasting life with perfect health, happiness and joy, no tears or problems, members of a family that owns everything, and of the increase of this way of life there will be no end.
What a rotten no good God! How dare He bless mankind like that. What a no good so and so. ;D ;D ;D
Get the point? What is it that you want from God that He is not going to give you?
Do this. Write one clear English sentence that says what you want. Then tell us why you think God will not give it to you.
That is why I do not understand your point. What do you want that you think you won't get---eventually?
John
GaryK:
--- Quote ---The kind of God who is Spirit and is interested in Spiritual things. None of this fleshly stuff matters--only what is Spiritually accomplished in the lives of individuals. Both the rich and the poor have thier challenges to overcome. All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. There is no one righteous...no not one.
--- End quote ---
Dave
Dave
(snaps fingers) Dave!!!!!.
You and I have sort of a musician’s soul-ness, we dive deep. Why load up the mules with chains and haul in the verses, isn’t that what we see here on BT everyday on every single topic posted and addressed? Nothing more than skin deep, nothing to the veins?
You, of all people, would know that’s not what I’m looking for……….but the rest of what you say………….hmmmmm…juicy….
--- Quote ---Don't we tend to admire the poor who have Spiritual riches? Isn't that at the core of our 'nostalgia' (misplaced or not) for the 'good old days'?
--- End quote ---
Yes, but my granny had that Dave. I’ve learned that she was mis-placed in her ‘eastern-star’ admiration and loyalty.
--- Quote ---Don't we also admire humility in rich people?
--- End quote ---
Name’em Dave. I can’t think of a finger-full.
--- Quote ---Maybe especially these days when the me-generation and the notion of the 'entitled' rich has corrupted so many minds?
--- End quote ---
That’s Hollywood. TV was invented in the last hund-erd years. Do you really think I give a sh…t about the Brad Pitt’s or Kim K’s of the US? (crap, let me walk and check my neat little hand-held I-phone for you tube..or something...
--- Quote ---All I want to add is to seriously question this notion that the LoF is some 'Universalist' substitute for the Christian Hell with the only difference being that it is temporary.
--- End quote ---
There.
That’s it.
WHY is it so different Dave? What?
Tell me where it ISN”T a substitute. I get lost….right there. I see NO difference………..except the difference.......
....the difference being........as you said..........it's temporary.
Don't we all end up in heaven singing praises on the chocolate rock?
GaryK:
--- Quote ---Hi gk,
I cannot help you with your questions. I don't have a problem with how God does things.
--- End quote ---
Good for you John, I do.
--- Quote ---Let's consider a few things.
All human beings are born, given life by God. All human beings die, life taken by God. All human beings will be resurrected back to life by God.
All will have everlasting life with perfect health, happiness and joy, no tears or problems, members of a family that owns everything, and of the increase of this way of life there will be no end.
What a rotten no good God! How dare He bless mankind like that. What a no good so and so.
Get the point?
--- End quote ---
Don’t lecture me John, you’re smarter than that. (I don't normally feel a whole buncha-love in my heart for anyone John, but know that I mean that sentence to you in the warmest......in the warmest, take it to heart
--- Quote ---What is it that you want from God that He is not going to give you?
--- End quote ---
Answers.
Now.
I’ve waited patiently.
--- Quote ---Do this. Write one clear English sentence that says what you want.
--- End quote ---
I thought that’s what I did. Bad English I reckon.
--- Quote --- Then tell us why you think God will not give it to you.
--- End quote ---
I’ve watched you grow on this forum John. That’s where you shine and I don’t. You’ve been given the gift of believing. I haven’t....................so far. Be easy on those that stumble.
--- Quote ---That is why I do not understand your point.
--- End quote ---
You don’t? God seems partial. Need more?
--- Quote --- What do you want that you think you won't get---eventually?
--- End quote ---
No John, what do I think I WILL get………that everyone else WILL get ALSO……..no matter what kind of life given..........crap or no crap.........blessed beyond and them some..........or not blessed other than life itself....given by him to begin with........in the earlier stages of planning.
I've lost the way to see the sense in it.
That’s the point. Do you not see the point now???
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