> General Discussions
The 'have's'......and the 'have-not's'.......
John from Kentucky:
God is not partial. He is no respecter of persons. All will die. A dead man takes nothing with him.
You say, "I've lost the way to see the sense in it". That's a good English sentence.
None of us can help you. Only God can help you see the sense of things. If He wants you to see the sense of things now, then you will. If not, you will see it later.
I wouldn't sweat it. Worrying about stuff doesn't help. I like you. You make a fine addition to the Family of God. Be cool. 8)
GaryK:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on January 21, 2012, 08:56:45 PM ---God is not partial. He is no respecter of persons. All will die. A dead man takes nothing with him.
You say, "I've lost the way to see the sense in it". That's a good English sentence.
None of us can help you. Only God can help you see the sense of things. If He wants you to see the sense of things now, then you will. If not, you will see it later.
I wouldn't sweat it. Worrying about stuff doesn't help. I like you. You make a fine addition to the Family of God. Be cool. 8)
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---None of us can help you.
--- End quote ---
I know...........
I know that John.
Straight talk.
Respectible.
I can deal with respectible.
--- Quote ---Only God can help you see the sense of things.
--- End quote ---
And that's why I said, John, I've watched you grow on this forum and that sentence cuts to the bone. Whether I like it or not, it's true. And appreciated.
To the heart.
~S!~
gk
Dennis Vogel:
All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. As, first the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse's arms.
And then the whining school-boy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress' eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honour, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon's mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lined,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slipper'd pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side,
His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank; and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.
William Shakespeare
We all play the part God gave us.
Dave in Tenn:
Dang, Gary. The 'verses' have become less and less proof-texts for various doctrinal positions and more and more written in my heart. To ask me to leave them out is to ask me to remove what pumps the juice through those veins you mentioned.
Maybe I was sloppy in saying what I said. What I SHOULD have said is that our understanding (and thus preaching) the LoF should not be a stroke by stroke substitute for the Christian DOCTRINE of Hell. Some ways in which it IS different besides being "not eternal":
1. It is Spiritual language describing a Spiritual process. It is neither literal fire nor a literal Lake. Neither is it "symbolic" of a 'place' that is LIKE a fire and a Lake. The Lake of Fire is God. I don't know what it will literally be like after we rise, and niether does anybody else.
2. It is not seperation from God. It is accomplished (like Judgement now) in the PRESENCE of the Lamb. The Lake of Fire is God.
3. It is Righteous judgement. Take a look at who and what is "cast" into it. It's the goodness of God that draws men to repentance. (sorry, couldn't resist). I have to believe mercy trumps justice. It was good for me (though difficult and wrenching) to see "the beast rising out of the sea" and believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Why should I think it will be different for the great mass of humanity?
4. It is Beneficial. If you can only handle "chocolate rocks" (of course I don't believe that's true of you), then everybody will get their "chocolate rocks".
5. It is the same Fire that purges believers "now".
I could go on, but Ray has about 1500 pages and this is just a forum post. I don't know anything that didn't start there.
To be honest, I'm not sure I can count many humble poor people in my family's past. No matter how poor or 'humble', they pretty much all thought they were better than some people. This is the south, after all. I'd repeat "there is none righteous, no not one", but I don't want to be skin deep.
Anyways, like John said, I have no beef with the way God is creating humanity. All this is His and He can do anything He wants with it. He is God and I am not.
Kat:
Hi gk,
I'm thinking what you are asking about was the main point of Ray's most resent paper. In this life there are so many different circumstances, you mentioned a few "prosperity, wisdom, nobility, dumbness, slavery, common place," but all of these differing life circumstances and there are an infinite number, is creating unique individual out of us all.
All the life events, the good and the bad, is building a foundation of character in people or a base mold, if you will. Now this base of character will have to be perfected at some point, but you need something to start with, but in judgement the good will remain and bad burned away. Now the out come is not to bring everyone to become the very same, not at all, God wants unique individuals, but just to make the individual righteous.
So if you can see what I'm saying all these diverse lives that people are born into and yes without any say (how else could it be), is for a reason. In order for God to have every person to become an unique individual, there must be all of these great diversities in living situation... the haves and the have nots.
Now we come to you final question.
--- Quote ---Why would a loving, merciful, purposeful, planning, ancient, wise, who gives his only son……God………
………give most to so few a people, and less to so many a people, only to judge the minority of either on earth in their life-time so that they may lead and judge the majority of both who had so much less than others during their life on earth?
An exaggeration........here buddy and budd-ette, be born.....have nothing......live pain.....and then just for giggles........I’m going to throw you in the ‘lake of fire’ and burn out everything bad that you have desired on earth (that I designed for you desire to begin with).
What kind of rationale is that? What could possibly be the finer point of the purpose?
--- End quote ---
Well as I have been saying it is to create in all human beings uniqueness, so that God will have a family of all these interesting individuals. But aren't you saying that God is unjust because He will "throw you in the ‘lake of fire’ and burn out everything bad that you have desired on earth"? Well you know that now in this age people have a weak heart and we desire carnal things of the flesh and we care more for self than others. Yes God did give us this nature, but what He is creating in human beings is not simple and requires multiple steps.
This is the first part/step where we develop a base character, there is going to be more steps in the process for it to be completed. Maybe things will get flipped around in the next age and the haves will be the have not and the have nots will have much, I would think it's a possibility. Yes this part is difficult and there is more difficulties to come I'm sure. But it is a plan by a Master Designer who know what must be done to turn out the best results in the end.
Now I think the LOF is not one size fits all. Judgments will be in exact proportion to fit every person and situation to bring about the outcome of the person to learn righteousness. This will no doubt be more difficult for some than others and needs to be. Some may need a tremendous amount of heat to burn out some character flaws. But let's think about a little child that died an is raised, do you think that they will face suffering in the LOF? I certainly do not think so, they will be nurtured and raised up and taught the right way to live. But you have to understand as with the chosen now, when judgment comes on the rest there are fundamental things that must be changed and the weak heart that is in man must be changed.
Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. And I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
v. 27 And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you shall keep My judgments and do them.
So don't get so caught up in what is happening now, that you do not see the light at the end of the tunnel. Hope this helps a bit and gives you a little to think about.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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