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''just another tread about money''

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acomplishedartis:
Gina, I glad you liked these long tread.


--- Quote from: Gina on February 02, 2012, 01:55:53 AM ---
And I was thinking about this very thing tonight.  Those institutions make people fear by telling them the clock is ticking on their opportunity to buy what they're trying to sell.  "This deal is over in 24 hours.  Time is running out!"  As if there won't be any more opportunities or deals!  As if the thing they're selling won't exist tomorrow.  As if it'll never go out of style, never grow old, or rust.  It's all in an attempt to get us to part with our money because people with money are considered by many to be  more attractive/desirable, more intelligent, more trustworthy.   

--- End quote ---
Yes advertisings (and advertisers) usually take advantage, I think the good ones (the most skilfull advertisers) are very smart people. It is good observation to contemplate how things get old and rust so quick. Yeah people that consider themselves rich and superior are usually so busy buying unnecessary s***


--- Quote from: Gina on February 02, 2012, 01:55:53 AM ---There is nothing at all wrong with being rich or having money.  Remember, Abraham and Job?  (The love of money is the root of all sorts of evil.  Money isn't evil in and of itself.  Money would be worthless if there weren't things to exchange for it.)  It's when our hearts want things way above and beyond the necessities because we believe this will make us look better (pride of life) in the eyes of so many others. 

Many see someone who has lots of expensive material possessions as better (more attractive, intelligent and more trustworthy) than themselves and others.  Many people literally desire to know and be among people with money.  Even though the poor God causes to be rich in faith.

--- End quote ---

I agree that there is nothing wrong by itself with being rich or having money. Then it would be unfair to inherit something great. Money this day's doesn't worth that much and even less for people that is not very good at the time to spend it. The concept of believe to be rich and poor is very relative. If we would get strict with the terms. A dirty hungry kid on the streets with no debts is more rich than a well dreesed Sr on his luxury car whom have a lot of debts.

I grew up in a high middle class family that used to see people in other social classes as inferior, and the rich as superior, but since my journey of learning bible truths started (like 8years ago) my world view and taken for granted assuptions have been changing continually, sometimes too fast, painfully and too drastic.


--- Quote from: Gina on February 02, 2012, 01:55:53 AM ---But it's interesting the ways marketing companies get us to part with our money.

I watched a really good movie with Demi Moore and David Duchovny recently (about 25 times, Craig, lol) called "The Joneses."   It's about a group of four people who work for a company called "Stealth Marketing."  It's fascinating and the trailers don't do it justice (I think it may have bombed at the box office, but it should not have!). 
They go undercover as a very rich family who can afford the best of everything.  Stealth Marketing strategically places them in beautiful homes in very affluent neighborhoods.  And their job basically is to "model" everything from cars, to clothes, to jewelry to food, but to make it look to their neighbors and "friends" like they actually bought the stuff fair and square.  Consequently, their neighbors look to them as if they're "gods" and they become envious/covetous, which causes them to want the same things or better than the Joneses have (it's all about keeping up with the Joneses).  Spoiler alert!    One of their neighbors falls for their act hook, line and sinker and is easily talked into buying all kinds of expensive stuff just to impress his greedy, immature, selfish wife (because she's bored of him and he wants love nad affection, but she isn't giving him any).  So he goes broke and loses the big, beautiful house he worked so hard to buy, he knows he's in trouble, and feels like a loser, but he can't bring himself to tell his wife what he's done (knowing she'll leave him for another man who does have money), and he drowns himself in the swimming pool in their big, beautiful, lush backyard.

--- End quote ---
Sound like a very interesting script, so that is where the phrase ''keeping up with the Joneses'' comes from, I didn't know (will watch the movie). It is also kind of funny how does envy and social pressure works


--- Quote from: Gina on February 02, 2012, 01:55:53 AM ---The last couple years with the loss of jobs and everything, I've seen headlines that read:  "Father shoots wife and three children and turns gun on self."  But you read a little further and you find the man lost his job and was no longer able to feed his family and that meant everything to him.  So, to "save face" he shoots them and then turns the gun on himself.  Being in the poorhouse is so unattractive.

--- End quote ---

Wow. I see how you judge him not and remember that we could be on his shoes. From his perspective that probably was reasonable. How far have things go, however, it is not a surprise.


Gina, you ramble pretty good.


Moises

acomplishedartis:
One man considers himself rich, yet has nothing [to keep permanently]; another man considers himself poor, yet has great [and indestructible] riches. (Proverbs 13:7)

So, one man can be rich (according to his surroundings) and consider himself poor, yet he can have great (spiritual) riches.
There is also so many spiritual poor people considering (and craving to be) rich, yet they have nothing spiritual.

The concept of being rich and poor is very relative.

Samson:

--- Quote from: Moises on February 02, 2012, 03:17:33 AM ---One man considers himself rich, yet has nothing [to keep permanently]; another man considers himself poor, yet has great [and indestructible] riches. (Proverbs 13:7)

So, one man can be rich (according to his surroundings) and consider himself poor, yet he can have great (spiritual) riches.
There is also so many spiritual poor people considering (and craving to be) rich, yet they have nothing spiritual.

The concept of being rich and poor is very relative.

--- End quote ---


Hey Moises,

I read your initial Post at the top. The part about Covetousness interested Me, because essentially that's the Sin and motivation behind all other Sins. Covetousness is a form of greed and often leads to other grievous things: Murder, Adultery, Theft, Lying, putting too much emphasis & time attempting to satisfy the desires(Greek-Epithumia) of the Flesh. Hence the Love of Money being the root of all Evil or Injurious Things. This Love of Money has it's basis in Coveting.

Of course the Greek Word Epithumia is a little tricky because it's not necessarily referring to wrong desires. Examples below!

Luk 22:15  And he said unto them, With desire(Greek-Epithumia) I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

2Ti 2:22  Flee also youthful lusts(Greek-Epithumia): but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

epithumia
ep-ee-thoo-mee'-ah
From G1937; a longing (especially for what is forbidden): - concupiscence, desire, lust (after).

Same Greek word Epithumia is used for Jesus desiring to eat the Passover and Paul instructing Timothy to flee from Youthful lusts or Desires.

However Covetousness is often the motivating influence behind the desire to obtain Money. It's not the Money in itself, but other desires that are often fulfilled through the pursuit of Riches like Position, Power, Prominence and elevating ones Vanity. Just some examples that illustrate Covetousness.

I remember Ray being quoted as saying that an Atheist is capable of following the Ten Commandments, except One: Thy shall not Covet, thy Neighbors possessions, Wife, etc. That includes Coveting of any kind. Anyone can physically adhere to Nine of these Ten Commandments, but only God's Holy Spirit can remove the desire or lust of Coveting.

There is nothing righteous or spiritual in itself in being Poor, there are many a poor people who aren't spiritual and who Covet. However, often being Rich is an obstacle by way of the circumstances connected to being Rich towards obtaining Physical Riches, because the individual's Time and interest is consumed by His desire to get Rich, important, prominent, powerful and materially successful.

1Ti 6:6  But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7  For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8  And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:9  But they that will be rich fall into TEMPTATION and a SNARE, and into many foolish and HURTFUL LUSTS, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
1Ti 6:10  For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and PIERCED themselves through with many sorrows.

SNARE: pagis
pag-ece'
From G4078; a trap (as fastened by a noose or notch); figuratively a trick or stratagem (temptation): - snare

EVIL: kakos
kak-os'
Apparently a primary word; worthless (intrinsically such; whereas G4190 properly REFERS TO EFFECTS), that is, (subjectively) depraved, or (objectively) injurious: - bad, evil, harm, ill, noisome, wicked.

ERRED OR SEDUCE: apoplanaō
ap-op-lan-ah'-o
From G575 and G4105; to lead astray (figuratively); passively to stray (from truth): - err, seduce.

1Ti 6:17  Charge them that are rich in this world(AION), that they BE NOT HIGHMINDED, nor trust in UNCERTAIN RICHES, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1Ti 6:18  That they do good, that they be RICH IN GOOD WORKS, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1Ti 6:19  Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal(AIONIAN) life.

HIGHMINDED: hupsēlophroneō
hoop-say-lo-fron-eh'-o
From a compound of G5308 and G5424; to be lofty in mind, THAT IS, ARROGANT: - be highminded.

CAPS FOR EMPHASIS ARE MINE.

Regarding Covetousness, read below !

Col 3:5  Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and COVETOUSNESS, WHICH IS IDOLATRY:

COVETOUSNESS: pleonexia
pleh-on-ex-ee'-ah
From G4123; avarice, that is, (by implication) fraudulency, EXTORTION: - covetous (-ness) practices, GREEDINESS.

Covetousness is a form of Idolatry, figuratively speaking.

IDOLATRY: eidōlolatreia
i-do-lol-at-ri'-ah
From G1497 and G2999; image worship (LITERALLY OR FIGURATIVELY): - idolatry.

Col 3:6  For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7  In the which ye also walked some time, WHEN YE LIVED IN THEM.

CAPS FOR EMPHASIS ARE MINE.

Interesting Thread, Samson.

Gina:

--- Quote ---Yeah people that consider themselves rich and superior are usually so busy buying unnecessary s***
--- End quote ---

Moises, you crack me UP!  ;D ;D ;D  You're on FIRE.

Ahh! Who would have ever guessed when we were back in the physical church that truthfully discussing these things would be so much more enjoyable than actually owning these things!

Yes, I judge him NOT!  My heart goes out to people like that.

I love it!  Yeah, I ramble pretty good!  When a person gets something of spiritual value out of these types of discussions, all Glory to God.  Thank you so much for this thread Moises.

Stacey:
I enjoyed reading your thread Moises. Not trying to take away from what you said at all but what I gathered from it was this.

Frugality. On personal and public levels leads to contentment on many levels.

Paul was definitely a frugal person and one of our greatest examples.

Who is rich and who is poor and by whose or what measuring stick is the measurement taken?

By the worlds standard I would be considered in the extreme lower level of the middle class. Its a good thing I refuse to let the world decide for me where I fit in. God is our provider and we are surely blessed and no matter what condition we find our selves in there are always blessings to be counted to our benefit that far out way any monetary value and by default make each of us rich beyond measure.

Moises you said you've been on a lot of different levels even just to see what they were like. Be careful friend. One fella comes to mind considering this. He's the Fat to Fit dude. Google him for more info if you want to. He wanted to see what it was like to be fat so he deliberately ate to get fat. He was perfectly fit when he started and needed to know why fat people struggle so much to shed the pounds. Now that he reached the goal of getting fat he is trying to shed the pounds.  :) The pounds ain't coming off very easy.   

Gina, we live in America. There's no possible way to ever miss out on the super special deal when the sale never ends and another one will be out shortly!

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