Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[eggi]

Dear brothers and sisters,

It's been a while... Just wanted to tell you that our little family up there in "cold dark Norway" is missing you, and we sure miss to have the opportunity to meet with others of the same mind as us. We don't presently know of anyone around us here who believe what we all believe in. We have nobody physically close to us, but we do have Christ and His body of believers.

Yesterday I had a really bad and sad day. First of all, reading about Ray's condition is so painful, and I'm struggling to be strong just as all of you. In the last couple of weeks we have also been contacted by a member of my wife's family. They are worried for us because we are not going to church, and we are not keeping the literal commandments of the Law of Moses. The new discovery for him is that although we are under grace and not under the Law, we still need to obey the Law of Moses literally. Now he is worried that we are losing our reward since we don't keep these commandments literally. Although this, according to him, is not necessary for salvation, he says that if you have the Holy Spirit it follows that you want to obey God by following the literal commandments. So, what he is saying is that none in our family have the Holy Spirit, seeing that we don't keep the Sabbath days (all the feasts, saturdays), not the Passover, and so on. He has also said that is considering circumcision for himself.

Today we had a four hour discussion with him, futile and quite sad. I got called an heretic several times, we are also according to him "rebelling against God", not wanting to obey, not having the Holy Spirit and so on. He said that we are right in believing that the law is Spiritual, but the literal keeping of the Law remains just as important. He says that the apostles kept the law of Moses literally all their lives. He says that Paul circumcised Timothy, and probably all other Christians as well. It was "expected that Christian gentiles did these things, since when you have the Holy Spirit you want to obey these commandments."

I asked him if not having the Holy Spirit would mean that you are not saved. He agreed to that. So, in my opinion, this means that keeping the literal commandments ARE necessary for salvation. To this he disagreed. I then asked: But aren't you saying that if you don't keep the literal commandments you don't have the Holy Spirit? Yes, he said. And that's how the discussion went on.

The conclusion is: You guys are so important, this forum is all we have at the moment! We love you each and everyone and we thank God for everything we have learned from Ray and you.

God bless all!

Love in Christ,
Eirik

[gmik]

 Dear friend,  my heart is heavy too about Ray.  You are NOT alone EVER-even in northern Norway!  Your story, while sad, about your wifes family, is fairly typical among all of us on the forum

I live in a very populated area in the States but I don't know anyone around me that believes as we do.  The forum is my "church-family". The B-T site is where I get my teaching.

I have stopped trying to tell/convince anyone (especially in my family) what I believe.  My own son once said I was a heretic...that hurt!  We move on and live our lives not "talking about it".

Anyway, I am glad you shared w/ us but sorry you had to go thru it, but hey, their eyes may open someday because you did spend all that time.  You just never know how the Lord is working in others lives.  Doesns't it feel better now after you have shared w/ us?  Something about writing it out and knowing others are reading and understanding you.

Wow, thru Ray I am talking to you in Norway.  I never would hve believed that!  The Lord has truly used Ray to bring all of us into a "new kind of family".

Good talking to you Eirik.  May God Bless you and your family!!

[eggi]

It sure helps Gena! I can prove that by telling you that I kept pushing the refresh button every once in a while to see the first reply! I needed it. I will share this with my wife now before we go to bed! It feels so much better sharing this and knowing that you understand. In the past few months we have felt more and more alone.

God bless you,
Eirik

[Ninny]

Oh..Eirik I know you must feel lonely and isolated...it is a lonely life, but yes we do have each other though far away...Gena is right..if not for Ray and God working in our lives we would not be able to know each other...It's so hard when your family thinks you're a heretic..I have never been called that, but I have gotten a lot of lectures and looks..but I don't argue or convince...if God means for the rest of the family to understand then He will give them understanding it is our place to love them as much as possible..I'll be praying for the two of you.God will give you strength......
Kathy 

[tinknocker]

Food for thought;

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace!

tinknocker

[Foxx]

don't let it get you down or sad. These things aren't bad, everything is at it should be and God knows what is on your heart. Showing the love you have been is the most sure fire way to prove that they are the ones being most unlike Christ because they insist on judging and condemning you, difficult to hear them do but you are doing what is good and right and when a person can no longer use scripture to back up their beliefs they resort the things they told you. God bless and be cheerful

[Gina]

Ray has pointed these verses out in Acts at least once:

Acts 15  (Amplified)

  24As we have heard that some persons from our number have disturbed you with their teaching, unsettling your minds and throwing you into confusion, although we gave them no express orders or instructions [on the points in question],

    25It has been resolved by us in assembly to select men and send them [as messengers] to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

    26Men who have hazarded their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    27So we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will bring you the same message by word of mouth.

    28For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to lay upon you any greater burden than these indispensable requirements:

    29That you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from [tasting] blood and from [eating the meat of animals] that have been strangled and from sexual impurity. If you keep yourselves from these things, you will do well. Farewell [be strong]!

There comes a time when we just get tired of the vanity of arguing with people about these things and we let them talk and when they're finished we say something like,

So!  How about this lovely weather we're having, huh?! 

If they're so worried, remind them that Paul commanded us to not worry about anything.  Remind them of the verses above.  And remind them that they shouldn't be getting into arguments and unsettling you.  Turn the tables, or change the subject.  Truly believe what you have been taught, and none of what they say will bother you.  Eventually, whenever they start in on you about these things, it will begin to have the same effect as a three-year-old throwing a temper tantrum to get what they want, and you'll be like, ho-hum...whateverrrr....  knock yourself out..   yawn....

 

[eggi]

Food for thought;

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace!

tinknocker

He doesn't disagree with that, according to him. He says that we obey the literal commandments because of the Holy Spirit, not because we need to do it in order to be saved.

[jingle52]

My husband calls BT a cult and Ray a guru, but God has not given him the gift of faith yet and so he laughs at me for being so serious in reading and learning whenever I have a spare moment! This just slides off me and I try to make him understand a few things I've learnt here... to no avail.
We know what is Ray's teachings and we believe and have faith in our Lord, Ray has made everything (almost everything a little clearer) and we are not in the dark anymore. Praise God for His Mercy and Grace towards us.

Take care Erik, God is in control of everything.

[Dave in Tenn]

Hi Eggi.  It's always good to hear from you, as well.  I don't see how anybody could study 'circumcision' in the New Testament and come to any other conclusion than what you know.  But maybe that's just it...it's a matter of 'sight' and not of argument.  Maybe he can be persuaded to study the topic on his own from the New Covenant. 

The OT is a schoolmaster, and the "church" which is still under that covenant is good for some things.  You can't ask schoolchildren to work too far above their grade-level.  God knows hearts, and if he goes through with circumcison, it's what he 'thinks' is right.  You have far more light than that, by the grace of God.  But we all have experienced both the good AND the corruption of the religious system.  God didn't spare us from that...he is delivering us from it.  That's the point.  Everything in due time.  I pray it happens for him before the big 'snip'.

I know it's painful for someone you love to not be able (even willing) to see.  I know it's painful to have our own obedience to Christ called into question by blind guides and self-righteous children.  I'm glad the Lord didn't command us to 'enjoy' these trials to faith, but to rejoice.

Endure to the end, Eirick.  Hang in there, brother.  This trial is MEANT to increase your faith and joy and any other benefit.   
 

[eggi]

Hi all,

You have no idea how bright your loving and guiding responses are shining their light on our situation. All of you have touched our hearts and supported and helped us! I feel like quoting Paul:

"God is truly here among you."

God bless you all,
Eirik

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Eggi

Here’s how I see it...

You and your wife are simply feeling the pain of being branded in heart as in circumcision, to the Glory of the Kingdom of God within you. 

Your experience stands true, like the evidence shown by your foot prints revealing the passage of exit from the walls of the city that must fall. That city is Babylon. The experience of leaving,  is indelible, as much as a fire brand is to marking those who belong to the fold who are escaping from the dominions of bondage. Our God is a consuming fire!

The natural comes first, with its efforts to obey laws, traditions and doctrines, opinions and beliefs  of man, community, religion and social conditionings.

The Spirit of God has no need to prove itself by submitting to such worldly limitations.

The Spirit of God has no need to prove itself by submitting to its own Commandments by exercising physical display in order to gain the approval as measured by human judgment. Paul himself stated that it is a VERY small thing that he be judged of mans judgment. 

The hurt and testimony of being made separate from darkness, as we are drawn into the Light, dawns into  recognition of that Light and Liberty that sets us free of Egypt,  begins the journey out of Babylon to the Promised Land of Christ within.

Those who leave the bondage of community with manmade religions, enter into the tabernacle within to commune with Christ who becomes our Shepherd who leads us away from the chatter of debates, the challenges of sword fights and brings us to the rest of Peace of knowing true from false, that governs those to whom the Kingdom of God is first and foremost.

Rejoice then, for your reward is not of this world!

Arc

[Dennis Vogel]

Comes with the territory Eirik:

Mat 10:34  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Mat 10:35  For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Mat 10:36  And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

You will be persecuted:

Mat 5:10  Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 5:11  Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
 

[Dennis Vogel]

My husband calls BT a cult and Ray a guru

A cult guru trys to control followers and usually gets rich as a result.

I think we all agree that is not the case here.

[dogcombat]

A cult guru trys to control followers and usually gets rich as a result.

I think we all agree that is not the case here.

Especially since we're being ENRICHED by God's truths.

Ches

[Gina]

My husband calls BT a cult and Ray a guru

A cult guru trys to control followers and usually gets rich as a result.

I think we all agree that is not the case here.

Completely agree.

[tinknocker]

Food for thought;

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace!

tinknocker

He doesn't disagree with that, according to him. He says that we obey the literal commandments because of the Holy Spirit, not because we need to do it in order to be saved.

Hey Eggi

That verse was not given to debate with others but for you to chew on. Here's what God tells us about sharing the truth;

2Timothy 2:23-26  But reject foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they breed quarrels. The Lord's slave must not quarrel, but must be gentle to everyone, able to teach, and patient, instructing his opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance to know the truth. Then they may come to their senses and escape the Devil's trap, having been captured by him to do his will.

Before my eyes were opened I would have answered exactly as him. I remember thinking I was a pretty good person all in all. Since my eyes have been opened to the truth the Holy Spirit has been showing me just how corrupted and evil I really am. I am the worst sinner of all. It's not what I'm doing physically to break the law, but what my mind thinks and reacts too that breaks the law. Without Jesus I'm doomed and this is what the Holy Spirit has been burning in my heart and my mind. This is how the Holy Spirit writes in our heart and mind the spiritual laws by showing us every thought and action where we break the law. We will not fulfill the law in this body but by grace alone will we be saved.

I apologize if I confused you before. I keep thinking everyone is on the same wavelength. I still in the learning process of being able to teach but I think /know I have a very long way to go.
I don't post that often but I'm here almost everyday to do a sanity check. So often I too feel alone. I thank God that He opened my wife's eyes also

tinknocker

[Rene]

My husband calls BT a cult and Ray a guru

A cult guru trys to control followers and usually gets rich as a result.

I think we all agree that is not the case here.

An additional thought on this subject:

As a group of like-minded believers, we are not out soliciting members (followers), nor are we overly concerned about the membership's "revolving door" on the forum.   We know that God is in control and He will bring whomever He pleases to the BT website.


Eirik, regarding your comments, we (the members of the forum) are only a "click" away from you, so please feel free to avail upon us whenever you need someone to fellowship with or just need some encouragement.    

René

[jingle52]

Hi forum,
maybe my post was not read in the spirit in which I posted it. I started off with that unhappy sentence, just to encourage Erik in that no matter what others in our family or even friends think or say, (my husband is a man stumbling in the dark and is spiritually dead and does not believe in Christ) we can only praise God for bringing us to BT and Ray's teachings and fellowshipping with like minded people. I am the only one in my household who longs to know the truth and come to a better understanding of the Scriptures, and that remark only points to the unhappy fact that not all are drawn to God and given the gift of faith in this age.
Blessings to all

[Deborah-Leigh]

 God can, never the less, work very swiftly to turn on the Light!