> General Discussions
Jesus: "the CREATED of the Father"
Rene:
We do worship one God (the Father and Jesus Christ), but let's not forget that Jesus Christ also has a God and His God is the Father. It is not for no reason that Jesus stated, "...the Father is greater than I." John 14:28
Rom 15:6 - "In order that with one accord, with one mouth, ye maybe glorifying the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
2Cor 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassions, and God of all encouragement"
2Cor 11:31 - "The God and Father of our Lord Jesus knoweth He who is blessed unto the ages that I am not speaking falsely"
Eph 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ"
Col 1:3 - "We are giving thanks unto God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ always for you offering prayer"
1Pet 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ Who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from among the dead"
Kat:
Hi microlink, I saw all the Scripture from John, but not one of those say that Jesus is everything that the Father is and the same. Yes He is fully God, with the very nature of the Father as they are one, and we do see the Father through Christ.
John 8:19 Then they said to Him, "Where is Your Father?" Jesus answered, "You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also."
Since Jesus in the flesh was still fully God, that in and of itself means He would not sin.
James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
v. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
v. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
God, Father and Son as they are one, is not tempted to sin, because there is no lust for the physical things of this world. He would not have lusted even when He was in the flesh, because He had the Spirit of God without measure (John 3:34).
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: Kat on August 21, 2014, 01:32:24 PM ---
John, I know full well that Christ is fully 100% God "the fullness of the Godhead"... in saying He is part of the Father I am not saying He is only some degree of God, but that He is indeed connect and not separate from the Father.
But show me a Scripture that saying He is 'everything' that the Father is, that's all I need so I understand and agree.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
O.K. Let's look at the 1st Scripture I quoted, Hebrews 1:3.
The King James and the NKJV says Jesus is the express image of God. The NASB says He is the exact representation of God.
Of course the NT was written in Greek. The Greek word is charakter. That word is number 5481 in Strong's Concordance and means, "The exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, ie. facsimile.
So per that Scripture, how is Jesus different from the Father?
Does anyone have a Scripture that contradicts Hebrews 1:3? That says Jesus is not the exact representation of the Father?
When Jesus said that if you have seen Him (Jesus) you have seen the Father---was Jesus a little confused?
Did He mean to say that you have almost seen the Father, but not quite?
Was poor Jesus confused again when He said, "I and Father are one." Did He mean to say that there were two of Them?
In those ten Scriptures quoted previously from the Book of Isaiah, were they wrong? They say that there is one God and He created everything alone. Did He forget to say, " there is Jesus and Me and the holy spook makes three?"
In the Book of Philippians, where it states Jesus was equal with God---should we ignore that too, in order to make the Scriptures fit our personal opinions?
Sorry about the sarcasm Kat. I do get carried away.
Some people are confused about something. Before Jesus had emptied Himself, He had all power in heaven and earth. After His Resurrection, He had all power in heaven and earth.
But during the 33 years or so that He had emptied Himself, in order to die, He was below the angels in power and life force. He was fully human. Some things He said about Himself at that time pertain to His human condition and are not about His power as God. For example, He was hungry, He was thirsty, He tired, He grew in grace and knowledge----none of those things are applicable to God in His full power.
Well, it is obvious our little group are not of one mind on this matter. But look at the interest it engenders. God is bringing this issue to the fore. I wonder why? Why was Ray interested in this matter near the end of his life?
microlink:
--- Quote from: Kat on August 21, 2014, 04:21:03 PM ---
Hi microlink, I saw all the Scripture from John, but not one of those say that Jesus is everything that the Father is and the same. Yes He is fully God, with the very nature of the Father as they are one, and we do see the Father through Christ.
John 8:19 Then they said to Him, "Where is Your Father?" Jesus answered, "You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also."
Since Jesus in the flesh was still fully God, that in and of itself means He would not sin.
James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
v. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
v. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
God, Father and Son as they are one, is not tempted to sin, because there is no lust for the physical things of this world. He would not have lusted even when He was in the flesh, because He had the Spirit of God without measure (John 3:34).
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Thank you Kat :)
Kat:
Look at the whole passage there John.
Heb 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
v. 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
v. 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high (at the Majesty's Father's side, but not the Father),
v. 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Surely you know that an image or likeness or reproduction or facsimile is not the thing that it represents, neither is the Son.
I have never denied that the Father and the Son are one God, but I do not believe that makes them one and the same being and I do not see any Scripture that says that.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version