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Jesus: "the CREATED of the Father"
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: Kat on August 21, 2014, 07:03:15 PM ---
Look at the whole passage there John.
Heb 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
v. 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
v. 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high (at the Majesty's Father's side, but not the Father),
v. 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Surely you know that an image or likeness or reproduction or facsimile is not the thing that it represents, neither is the Son.
I have never denied that the Father and the Son are one God, but I do not believe that makes them one and the same being and I do not see any Scripture that says that.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
We love you Kat. We just don't see eye to eye on this.
I've had a long day at work. Need to get home and cook some hot dogs to eat, which is about the limit of my cooking skills.
But you do know that sitting at the right hand of majesty is symbolic language, not literal? Some people have this delusion of God the Father with long white hair and beard sitting on a throne. And then there is Jesus with the long brown hair and beard sitting on a throne at His right side.
Also God the Father is not a being or person. He is this invisible force, which is everywhere. I don't think our language is adequate to describe His greatness. God will have to do.
I have multiple Scriptures that prove the Father is God.
I have multiple Scriptures that prove Jesus is God.
And I have a zillion Scriptures that prove God is one. Not multiple entities.
If the Father is a separate (whatever) with separate thoughts and personality and existence.
If Jesus is a separate being (that word does apply to Him) with separate thoughts and personality and existence.
Then you have two separate Gods. But the Scriptures do not teach that.
So, since I follow where the Scriptures lead, I am left with the conclusion of one God. Many Scriptures such as 1 Cor 8:6 and Col 1:15 confirm that together the Father and Jesus are one God. You can't have one without the other. They do not do the same things; they do different things as 1 Cor 8:6 describes. But they are not separate.
So that is where I am right now. It doesn't bother me to stand alone. I can't help but follow where He leads.
I'm not going to add anything further to this thread since I don't have more to add. But the Scriptures do show us the Truth, and they do not contradict. The two witnesses guide the way at God's direction.
Kat:
John I don't disagree with anything you just said. And no I don't believe there is a literal throne where the Father is literally sitting with the Son literally sitting there by His side... and yes the Son is a Being the Father is not.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Dave in Tenn:
Bob, here is what you were asking about.
G2822
κλητός
klētos
Total KJV Occurrences: 11
called, 11
Mat_20:16, Mat_22:14, Rom_1:1, Rom_1:6-7 (2), Rom_8:28, 1Co_1:1-2 (2), 1Co_1:24, Jud_1:1, Rev_17:14
G1588
ἐκλεκτός
eklektos
Total KJV Occurrences: 23
elect, 13
Mat_24:24, Mat_24:31, Mar_13:22, Mar_13:27, Luk_18:7, Rom_8:33, Col_3:12, 1Ti_5:21, Tit_1:1, 1Pe_1:2, 1Pe_2:6, 2Jo_1:1, 2Jo_1:13
chosen, 7
Mat_20:16, Mat_22:14, Luk_23:35, Rom_16:13, 1Pe_2:4, 1Pe_2:9, Rev_17:14
elect’s, 3
Mat_24:22, Mar_13:20, 2Ti_2:10
santgem:
Alpha and Omega / first and the last
the Father
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Rev 1:8
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send itunto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. Rev 1:11
Who hath wrought and done, Calling the generations from the first? I, Jehovah, the first, and with the last I am He. Isa 41:4
This is what the LORD says— Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last;apart from me there is no God.” Isaiah 44:6
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freelyHe that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. Rev 21:6-7
the Son
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: ‘Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I WAS DEAD, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.’" Revelation 1:17-18
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Rev 1:7-8
Does God and the Son change?
Hebrew 1:8, Hebrew 13:8, Numbers 23:19, James 1:17, Romans 11:29, 1 Samuel 15:29, Malachi 3:6
Joel:
I personally do believe there is a literal presence to be enveloped in that has seldom been experienced here on earth.
Joel
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