I like what I've read (mostly)

[knuckle]

Hi Scrybe-------------------

    again welcome to the forum.I have to echo what many have already posted.If one believes that God is in control of His creation(I do),then the reason we each believe as we do is because we are meant to.As for our brothers and sisters still in the church, I have to love them --- they are doing what God means for them to do at this point..I believe that God works everything to HIS WILL wich is OUR GOOD.That is the loving nature of God.I don't understand why God chooses to do things the way He does, but I am absolutely sure that He has it all worked out.

much love-------------knuckle

[chrissiela]

Hi Scrybe and welcome.

I agree with you, in that coming out of Babylon has nothing to do with a physical action. In fact, we can leave the physical building and say that we have "come out of her" but still carry "her" with us wherever we go.

So I can also see how one can be "in a church" and yet NOT "partake" of those things that have made her desolate.

There were some in the church of Sardis that had not defiled their garments:

Rev 3:4  Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

[These are 'typical' of those who are "in her" (undefiled) that the Lord is calling to "Come out of her my people".]

So there may come a time when you can no longer put up with or tolerate those things that make her desolate and you have no "choice" but to leave (physically).

On the other hand they may beat you to the punch and "cast you out from among them". As soon as you share with them the reason for your hope. 

But, as has been said by others... ALL IS OF GOD and He will place you where He wants you.


Hi Ward and welcome to you, too!

I can surely relate!! It's like unpeeling the layers of an onion or something and finding something different in each new layer. And it seems like the more layers you REMOVE the LARGER you realize the onion is. Great post!!


Blessings to you both,
Chrissie

[Scrybe]

I have lately been thinking about all the things that have happened in my life and suddenly become grateful for some pretty awful stuff.  I started wondering who I would be, what I would be like, if I hadn't experienced those things.  And the answer scared me.  It was all worth it to be where I am now and (when I allow myself to think that way and don't wallow in self-pity) I am so grateful for it and so sure that after all He has brought me through, He will one day complete His work and bring me home to Him.

I know excactly what you mean.  I wouldn't change the emotional torture I went through for years even if I could.  That process is precious to me. 

[joyful1]

Scrybe-
My beliefs have been challenged more here than anywhere else....I've been digging deeper into the Word more than I have ever done before coming to B.T....its a good thing that no one knows how much paper and ink I've used up at home copying all of Ray's material so that my husband and I could sit up late into the night reading all of this....we began our journey about a year ago, taking notes, reading,  debating with our Bible Study group, "loudly discussing" Ray's ideas and the scripture into the wee hours, waking up the kids, waking up the neighbors sometimes...lol...anyway...for what its worth I have 2 problem areas as well:

(1) God seems to be putting me in a position that is leading me right back into Babylon....at least back into a position where I MUST deal with those who are convinced that I am a heretic!...and I am afraid, to be honest. I don't want to deal with them....they will hate me and persecute me and I don't know how much pressure I am able to take from them.....but God loves them and I believe He may be loving them through me by putting me in a position to pass on this infectious "questioning" attitude...I believe Jesus called it "seeking and knocking!" In the end...I reject the "city of Babylon" the system, the doctrines, but not those souls in the system, who like me, are being called out of Babylon.

(2) And secondly....I have some hard questions about monsters that molest children and how that could possibly pre-ordained by God. I can't get past that one...the whole free-will thing makes perfect sense to me when I go to bed at night.... and then I wake up with questions about "monsters." And I must say that I still don't believe that ALL is of God, at least, in my heart and I have tried and tried to reconcile it with Ray's teachings but cannot yet see it! Still, I take what I can accept and continue to question and study and learn. Like you, the bottom line with me is this: to know the truth! And certainly, these teachings make far more sense to me than anything else that I have discovered or been taught.

joyful1

[inezray]

Joyful,
I do believe that we have no free will is the only thing that makes sense. As you, my biggest struggle with it is the murder and molesting of children. It is almost inconceivable in my heart the tortue and cruelity put on these children. It also makes me fear that it could happen to one of my own. The only thing that I can reconcile in my heart, and I have given this alot of thought is this. When children are saved in some way from this and not murdered, the parents will thank God that the child was rescued. In other words, God interviened and saved them. Like the girl from Utah,(forgot her name) who was found 9 months later and seems to be surviving and may help others in the future. Now (and I would like to ask Ray about this) little Jesse that was buried alive. Psalm 23 says " Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil, for though art with me. Jesus is there present correct? Our minds are so designed to block out pain and fear in situations even to the point of no memory. If Gods grace is sufficent and will not put on us more than we can bear, then we really dont know that even in these last hours God was with and comforting this little girl. Until we are at deaths door we dont know. It somehow makes me feel better to believe this. Does this make any sense to anyone?

[orion77]

I can definetly understand the questioning of God for the likes of people who molest and kill children.  This is a hard thing to understand, if that is possible. 

When we think of the crucifixition of our Lord.  How horrible that was, yet we read, that if they knew of the truth, they never would of crucified Him.  And Jesus himself, has asked the Father to forgive them, for they know not what they do. 

There are many things going on in this world that simply does not make any sense, and the questiion comes up, why?  I don't know of anyone who can properly answer that question.  I think this is where faith must come in.  We must realize that God is a righteous judge, and all things will come into remembrance, whether they be good or evil.  People who do such horrendous things as this can not escape God.  Their day will come, God will make all things right in the longrun.  I honestly do not if there is anymore to say except have faith in the righteous God, whose judgments will be holy and correct.

God bless,

Gary