Hi to all

[Ian 155]

My name is Ian, I'm from S.Africa and its a jungle out here - spiritually. I do not go to a church which is possibly why I discovered this site.

No, elephants do not walk through my yard and Lions do not sit on my fence...

I've been married 21 tears,[not a spelling error] have 5 children range 20 years down to 13  and yes we do have TV .


I came to accept/ask Jesus into my life because my whole confirmation class did or was told to, in front of a lot of onlookers being a small Presbyterian church congregation... I knew nothing of what I was doing which may be another good thing.I had to repeat the "I accept Jesus in my life" before I got married as well , wives instruction ,well lets say her pastors too, so that she does not marry a filthy sinner and I subsequently have repeated this confession several times in my life until I said well enough now, where is this Jesus?, or "do you need more invites"? me talking to self...The truth is that this life for me and mine, ever since I asked Jesus in, has been sheer hell, if my non understanding of Hell is correct,I will say ... in this life, I have failed to see what the average man sees ,pleasant conditions,happy family,steady work,smiley faces ,no insult to the web designer with about 10 different yellow looking faces staring at me from the top of this email box.I must have done something severely wrong,correction many things wrong.So I started to seek the kingdom, not sure if I will find it but my book says I need only seek.

I find  L Ray Smith's writing pretty accurate and hard hitting,which could be a good thing if you are prepared to be taught.

Personally some comments have an edge of bitterness,harshness and sarcasm which could be as a result of the pain he is experiencing and or the sheer frustration of reading reams and reams of pathetic gobbledygook.

I am led to mention a part of psalm 1 "blessed is the man who does NOT sit in/on the seat of mockers/scornful, and to "season" one's words at all times, however, that is my leading and not necessary applicable to everyone.

I was moved because of his current physical condition and to get agreement on the Word with those who will,So... I Ian and those who agree, will declare "No weapon forged against him will prosper",Christ Jesus hath taken upon himself all our infirmities in his own body and by his stripes L Ray Smith is healed.
I, being an heir and having authority, further decree that all cancer in his body is removed and I "call" him completely healed, in Jesus name,

Amen.

[gmik]

Hi Ian and welcome.

I used to pray like that and declare all this and that.  If that worked Ray (and a kabillion others) would already have been healed.

I have never been to SA but I assure you it never occured to me that lions would run thru your yard.  Arc is from SA and she has been on forum for years and never once spoke of it!   

Me thinks you don't think much of us....hope I am wrong.

[Dave in Tenn]

Hello, Ian.

This is part of a reply to an email sent to Ray that maybe will give you some encouragement about how Ray is 'doing' in the area of 'bitterness' you mention.

I harbor no personal ill-feelings toward any person in the world.  I receive thousands of unjustified criticisms and condemnations from the World of Christendom (nearly 100% of my hate mail comes from Christians).  I have no trouble forgiving them all.

I hope and prayer is that you continue to see the grand design of God's master plan for the salvation and eternal happiness for all creation.

God be with you,

Ray

[Deborah-Leigh]

G. I think you'd really love Africa! 

Sure we don't have lions and buffalo next door, yet, for us, it is not unusual to entertain the Vervet monkeys who visit in their dozens and the beautiful powder blue faced guinea fowl and, oh, the odd bush babies, also come to say hello. They are a great opportunity to throw away the wilting fruit on the table that cannot stand up to the heat in the kitchen or the moldy bread that reduces into penicillin if not kept in the fridge!

Beyond the fence that is lined with rose bushes, is typical bush veldt (Afrikaans for field) grass and thorn trees, boasting their native presence before the burst of visual excellence towering above and beyond all, in the lanky thin but thick boarder of the silver grey poplar trees, that grow alongside the furrow, at the lower edge of the property. This is not a typical view of the common households here in SA unless your property boarders a game farm. Yet even then, the unique surrounds of our home, is a delight of privacy and recluse beauty.

Taking Byron to school often delights us to see the large baboons who cross over the busy roads as they rummage for foods bits and pieces.

Large winged bats are a common sight in the evening. We even had a large falcon fly into our kitchen once as we were all seated to have lunch. The large eagle like bird flew in and made a quick retreat out the open glass sliding door through which it had flown. It left a flurry of excitement and the atmosphere was electric as we sat wide eyed looking at one another wondering if we had all seen the same heart stopping sight!

Certainly, living in Africa has its moments that go beyond the pale of expectation to the more civilized nations of Europe or the more cosmopolitan experiences of USA. I have lived in both places and understand the fullness of Africa in spirit and soul that gets into your blood and doesn't leave. We live upon miraculous turf. Any visitor who is open to the contrasts of nature living side by side with the indigenous peoples of the land, cannot but help be moved and changed if the Spirit of Africa should so venture to touch their perceptions with its indelibly deep and profound mark. 

I am glad when the locals call me a litchi meaning that though I am white skinned, I have a native black heart. Rather that, than a white washed sepulcher with dead men's bones in it! Being no better nor less than anyone else is our lesson more commonly expressed as the message of apartheid. A house divided against itself cannot and shall not stand.

If you come to Africa looking for the signs and wonders, as would a person visiting Paris who looks for the Eiffel Tower or if you visit Washington to go see the Monuments, or the great wall of China even, you might be disappointed. Africa has an ambiance that is discernable only to the spiritually astute. Like a visitor visiting a monk in the high Tibetan mountains might come away frustrated and annoyed and another might come away elated and enlightened, so too is this marvelous continent where lives the multitude of varieties and contrasts of nature with life. Life with politics and politics with ecconomics,  all in the hum drum of existence, battling to exist, in the conundrum of daily challenges and interactions, is as diverse as any culture in any place in the world. We have our issues.

Like any nation, it has its secrets. Like any continent, it has its challenges. Lions aren't the challenge and neither is the plan and purpose that manifests to us, the insights and expounding truths of God's mind and heart as unveiled by Ray Smith.

"Behold, I have created the smith [that's me] that blows the coals in the fire, and that brings forth an instrument for His work, and I have CREATED THE WASTER TO DESTROY" (Isaiah 54:16). This is how Ray identifies  himself  in LOF part two.

Also note : Purpose for bible-truths.com
"[1] preach with sound doctrine and [2] refute those who contradict it"
[Titus 1:9 - The New Revised Standard Version]

To come away from the flesh of matters and to enter into the spirit of the issue, is to remain at peace with the ripping away of the blindfold that fastens down the eye lids to keep them closed to light, and the crash of icons and idols that roar down under the blows upon coals in the fire, that is sure to bring out  bedazzlement.  Who could know that simply blowing on coals in fire could be felt as the purging of unsound doctrine  that offsets the toppling of the icon of idolatry, esteemed by stagnant  worshipers of unsound doctrine, sporting  blindfolded eyes held shut in darkness of contradiction. There is nothing wrong with blowing on coals!

Great is the Light of Christ that comes upon words of insight and perception that affords Ray a place in the body that is useful to the purpose of heralding His Spirit. 

I can empathize with Ian's desire and brave, putting his neck on the block of declaration for Ray's release from Cancer. I hope I am not standing on any sensitive toes to share that my personal consolation and peace often comes with  what Paul says that henceforth know we, no man after the flesh.

I have fleshed out some of the aspects of life as seen through a limited personal perspective that describes some aspects of my daily living here in South Africa. Yet that said and written, it remains, that we are all here under the auspices of God who is working a work in us all.

You don't know me any better for the pretty picture painted of my surroundings. We don't know Ray any better for the anguish of his physical condition. What we do know, is that the worldly nature of our lives, is temporal. The Christ image melting into visibility out of the hardened nature of our hearts being purged and purified is what shall emerge, after the sanctified and made holy, test of  Faith.  All will be saved.  For me, that's good enough!

Welcome to the Forum Ian! ~

Arc

[Kat]

Hi Ian,

Welcome to the forum 
Here are links to the different boards that you can look into when you so desire.

Check out the forum rules, it will help you understand how this forum is moderated.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4558.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3614.0.html

General discussion board, this is to ask questions and discuss what is presented at the Bible-truths.com site.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,3.0.html

Child board for General discussion board - FAQ
(most frequently asked questions)
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,23.0.html

Forum Indexes & Info.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,14.0.html

Ray's Videos
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8227.0.html

Ray's Audios 
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2641.0.html

Ray's 2008 Audios
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8256.0.html

Transcripts of Audios
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,12.0.html

Off Topic board, this is to discuss things that do not directly relate to BT, you will find a good bit of humor here.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,4.0.html

child board on Off Topic board
Inspirationals, Writings, Poems, Etc.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,15.0.html

Testimonies / Prayer Requests / Fellowship board, this is mostly for personal posts.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,5.0.html

Child boards (only available to members) on Testimonies board
Who Am I? (members pics and other stuff)
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,16.0.html

Members Recipes, for sharing recipes and food tips
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,22.0.html

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[arion]

Personally some comments have an edge of bitterness,harshness and sarcasm which could be as a result of the pain he is experiencing and or the sheer frustration of reading reams and reams of pathetic gobbledygook.

Hello Ian,

I used to think that before I listened to any of Ray's audio teachings.  After listening to the first teaching I could discern his spirit and he is not bitter or harsh in the least.  He does use sarcasm against the willful religious hypocrites much as Jesus did but his manner is anything but.  If you have not listened to Ray's audio teachings they are available on this forum and I encourage you do download them and listen.  When you hear his voice and and mannerisms you'll understand that your impressions of him were in error as I found out myself. 

Welcome to the forum,

Doug

[Ian 155]

Hi Ian and welcome.

I used to pray like that and declare all this and that.  If that worked Ray (and a kabillion others) would already have been healed.

I have never been to SA but I assure you it never occured to me that lions would run thru your yard.  Arc is from SA and she has been on forum for years and never once spoke of it!   

Me thinks you don't think much of us....hope I am wrong.

I read my bible by faith and not by someones teaching....I assure you Peter certainly "saw" it and was gifted with great healing powers however I understand that you "used" to pray like that and obviously no longer do, which may be as a result of being let down in the area of healing,I assure you having gone thru many trials with sickness and deseases, after a little while, he who is faithful and true
has come thru."If you believe his word and do not doubt in your heart" "I am the God that healeth thee" so I encourage you to step outside of the natural and into faith, lay it all down in favour of what the Word says and you will see when you are vulnerable and don't know it all, he will lift you up, he will justify your faith,he is faithfull,come to him as a little child...

LOL... Whilst visiting Ontario, "Toronto" to be more specific, I was asked questions in the same light,[do wild animals roam the street] certain folks asked the question so without being facetious, I thought I would clarify upfront,apologies for assuming all outside Africa are naive,it was rather light hearted frm my side

with good wishes

[Ian 155]

Thanks for these teachings,I will certainly have a listen


Ian

[Ian 155]

G. I think you'd really love Africa! 

Sure we don't have lions and buffalo next door, yet, for us, it is not unusual to entertain the Vervet monkeys who visit in their dozens and the beautiful powder blue faced guinea fowl and, oh, the odd bush babies, also come to say hello. They are a great opportunity to throw away the wilting fruit on the table that cannot stand up to the heat in the kitchen or the moldy bread that reduces into penicillin if not kept in the fridge!

Beyond the fence that is lined with rose bushes, is typical bush veldt (Afrikaans for field) grass and thorn trees, boasting their native presence before the burst of visual excellence towering above and beyond all, in the lanky thin but thick boarder of the silver grey poplar trees, that grow alongside the furrow, at the lower edge of the property. This is not a typical view of the common households here in SA unless your property boarders a game farm. Yet even then, the unique surrounds of our home, is a delight of privacy and recluse beauty.

Taking Byron to school often delights us to see the large baboons who cross over the busy roads as they rummage for foods bits and pieces.

Large winged bats are a common sight in the evening. We even had a large falcon fly into our kitchen once as we were all seated to have lunch. The large eagle like bird flew in and made a quick retreat out the open glass sliding door through which it had flown. It left a flurry of excitement and the atmosphere was electric as we sat wide eyed looking at one another wondering if we had all seen the same heart stopping sight!

Certainly, living in Africa has its moments that go beyond the pale of expectation to the more civilized nations of Europe or the more cosmopolitan experiences of USA. I have lived in both places and understand the fullness of Africa in spirit and soul that gets into your blood and doesn't leave. We live upon miraculous turf. Any visitor who is open to the contrasts of nature living side by side with the indigenous peoples of the land, cannot but help be moved and changed if the Spirit of Africa should so venture to touch their perceptions with its indelibly deep and profound mark. 

I am glad when the locals call me a litchi meaning that though I am white skinned, I have a native black heart. Rather that, than a white washed sepulcher with dead men's bones in it! Being no better nor less than anyone else is our lesson more commonly expressed as the message of apartheid. A house divided against itself cannot and shall not stand.

If you come to Africa looking for the signs and wonders, as would a person visiting Paris who looks for the Eiffel Tower or if you visit Washington to go see the Monuments, or the great wall of China even, you might be disappointed. Africa has an ambiance that is discernable only to the spiritually astute. Like a visitor visiting a monk in the high Tibetan mountains might come away frustrated and annoyed and another might come away elated and enlightened, so too is this marvelous continent where lives the multitude of varieties and contrasts of nature with life. Life with politics and politics with ecconomics,  all in the hum drum of existence, battling to exist, in the conundrum of daily challenges and interactions, is as diverse as any culture in any place in the world. We have our issues.

Like any nation, it has its secrets. Like any continent, it has its challenges. Lions aren't the challenge and neither is the plan and purpose that manifests to us, the insights and expounding truths of God's mind and heart as unveiled by Ray Smith.

"Behold, I have created the smith [that's me] that blows the coals in the fire, and that brings forth an instrument for His work, and I have CREATED THE WASTER TO DESTROY" (Isaiah 54:16). This is how Ray identifies  himself  in LOF part two.

Also note : Purpose for bible-truths.com
"[1] preach with sound doctrine and [2] refute those who contradict it"
[Titus 1:9 - The New Revised Standard Version]

To come away from the flesh of matters and to enter into the spirit of the issue, is to remain at peace with the ripping away of the blindfold that fastens down the eye lids to keep them closed to light, and the crash of icons and idols that roar down under the blows upon coals in the fire, that is sure to bring out  bedazzlement.  Who could know that simply blowing on coals in fire could be felt as the purging of unsound doctrine  that offsets the toppling of the icon of idolatry, esteemed by stagnant  worshipers of unsound doctrine, sporting  blindfolded eyes held shut in darkness of contradiction. There is nothing wrong with blowing on coals!

Great is the Light of Christ that comes upon words of insight and perception that affords Ray a place in the body that is useful to the purpose of heralding His Spirit. 

I can empathize with Ian's desire and brave, putting his neck on the block of declaration for Ray's release from Cancer. I hope I am not standing on any sensitive toes to share that my personal consolation and peace often comes with  what Paul says that henceforth know we, no man after the flesh.

I have fleshed out some of the aspects of life as seen through a limited personal perspective that describes some aspects of my daily living here in South Africa. Yet that said and written, it remains, that we are all here under the auspices of God who is working a work in us all.

You don't know me any better for the pretty picture painted of my surroundings. We don't know Ray any better for the anguish of his physical condition. What we do know, is that the worldly nature of our lives, is temporal. The Christ image melting into visibility out of the hardened nature of our hearts being purged and purified is what shall emerge, after the sanctified and made holy, test of  Faith.  All will be saved.  For me, that's good enough!

Welcome to the Forum Ian! ~

Arc

Thanks for that, you are fortunate to live in the bushveld or I am presuming you do Yes great place to stay ...,Please do not empathize with my bold declaration... I believe it .
All I wanted was for those that believe that Jesus took all our infirmities in his own body and by those wounds we were healed to agree with me for his healing.If you dont thats your choice...Jairus did,the blind did,the lepers did,why shouldnt I

thanks for the great welcome

[Ian 155]

Hello Ian.  Welcome to the Forum.

However, I cannot go along with some of your comments, especially your last paragraph, the "healing" prayer, it sounds too "Churchy".  I do not do church things anymore or anything that remotely sounds like the syrupy crap that christians expound.

When you say that you have "authority" and that you "decree" that all the cancer in Ray's body be removed, who gave you that authority?

The truth is that God is the only Authority who will do to Ray and all the rest of us what He has predetermined will be our way in this life.

Please do not be offended at what I wrote.  God is calling all kinds.  Even the harsh, bitter, and sarcastic.   

John 
[/quote]
Hi,You don't have to go along with any comments ....Compassion,[I believe, seeing desparate folks crying out] is why Jesus healed,I have compassion on a man and his family, faced with great pain and tribulation. Only one name can remove it and i certainly will not let my pitifull knowledge of the word get in the way of divine healing.I believe, therefore it is done according to my faith not someone else's

as to who's authority let me tell you in the below testimony ...


I was called to the hospital after my wife was airlifted  [car accident].I had no job and used a friends car,our car was demolished in the accident with no insurance.

Lying crumpled on a stretcher 5 months pregnant,I looked at my wife and knew death is visiting....I climbed on top of the stretcher in the intensive care foyer and prayed [whispered] simply "Lord have mercy, forgive me and heal my wife".Immediately I was confronted by a stout nurse who said "choose Mr., "unborn child or your wife....." I chose both, she doubted I did not/could not, of my doing ? I don't know, but I said it.

Next missile, what medical fund are you on ? UMMM "do you want the truth or can I lie? truth please , ok.... NO MEDICAL FUND I DO NOT HAVE MEDICAL ! "oh let me speak to the DR [Professor] "Sir, thank you for being honest in this time of difficulty, I will pull out all the possible stops I can, this is very severe damage.

You can check with this doctor, Prof Ken Boffard,Mill Park hospital, 13 years ago almost to the day.IT SHALL BE DONE ACCORDING TO THY FAITH.Faith pleases God not words....[I through Grace got Faith that day because I know I was the worlds worst doubter]

My wife had damages to the amount of R1,8 million [13 years ago] this was a huge amount.Crushed ribs,hip replaced ,broken neck in 3 places,huge lacerations,broken leg in 3 places ,punctured lung,crushed knee,severe internal damages,  she was admitted to The Sandton private Clinic complements of prof Boffard - that is after being stabilized in the Jo-burg general ICU.[ask any South African about the conditions in the Joburg General...] ALL GRATIS

26 days after being admitted to Sandton private clinic they phoned me and said they have to send her back to the general hospital as the costs were getting astronomical.I went to see her the same day at the general hospital and she said, Ian I don't want to stay in this filthy place take me home .I looked at her and the caliper that was bolted into her skull holding a body brace in place and said you can't come home stay here, She refused and I ,after signing some paper that won't hold the hospital liable,took her out.We arrived home and she had to have a bed pan and was not comfortable with me cleaning it out. DAY 30 "Ian Take this contraption off me" "I can't it is bolted together with special Allen key bolts and worse, 4 of the bolts are screwed directly into your skull."I don't care take it off" pleeease Kathy your neck needs support the doc said 1 sudden wrong move and you could be paralyzed..."take it off " 2 months after leaving the hospital Rebecca was born natural birth, she was 7 months ,2 months premature - no assistance with breathing, fully developed and healthy.My wife was fully recovered within 6 months.



Brother Ray Be healed, get up I say, in the name of Jesus



For those who think some teaching is far to complicated take note , all I said or was enabled to say was Lord Have Mercy --

"come to me as a little child"

thank God life is not complicated for little children

PS im not offended at your welcoming tone... therefore I must be blessed "Tell John [the baptist] the lame walk the blind recieve their sight and blessed is he that takes no offense"

[Gina]

Hi Ian:  

I'm Gina.  I hope all is well with you.  

I noticed your prayer too.  But I noticed what you didn't say.  You didn't say, "I decree that all cancer be removed from his body at this very moment.  You didn't put God on any sort of schedule.  

Let me state for the record that many believe, too, that all cancer will one day be removed from Ray's body, but whether that happens in this life or in the one to come, is not really for anyone to decree, is it?  I personally wouldn't add a "decree" to that prayer for Ray only because I know what must be.  We pray according to God's will, or rather, in accord with what must be.  Ray MUST be healed/made healthy.

I can't speak for everyone here, but I imagine someone, whoever they are, might read your prayer for Ray (and this is not to criticize you, Ian) and might be tempted to think that the answer to your prayer MUST/will/shall come in a month or two or three, or even that day.  And they may be disappointed if that's not what God planned would happen--not to say that it cannot happen in this lifetime.  I'm hearing you hoping that it does happen in this lifetime, even though that's not what you said in your prayer.  Many of us are hoping the same.

I hope that doesn't sound discouraging.

I am thrilled for your wife, Ian, and for your child!  Thank God for answered prayer!

[Ian 155]

Hi Ian:  

I'm Gina.  I hope all is well with you.  

I noticed your prayer too.  But I noticed what you didn't say.  You didn't say, "I decree that all cancer be removed from his body at this very moment.  You didn't put God on any sort of schedule.  

Let me state for the record that many believe, too, that all cancer will one day be removed from Ray's body, but whether that happens in this life or in the one to come, is not really for anyone to decree, is it?  I personally wouldn't add a "decree" to that prayer for Ray only because I know what must be.  We pray according to God's will, or rather, in accord with what must be.  Ray MUST be healed/made healthy.

I can't speak for everyone here, but I imagine someone, whoever they are, might read your prayer for Ray (and this is not to criticize you, Ian) and might be tempted to think that the answer to your prayer MUST/will/shall come in a month or two or three, or even that day.  And they may be disappointed if that's not what God planned would happen--not to say that it cannot happen in this lifetime.  I'm hearing you hoping that it does happen in this lifetime, even though that's not what you said in your prayer.  Many of us are hoping the same.

I hope that doesn't sound discouraging.

I am thrilled for your wife, Ian, and for your child!  Thank God for answered prayer!

Gina thanks,Yes Rebecca is now 13 and was just nominated most attractive girl in her whole school,must have got her looks from mom...

re Mr L Ray, there is no human formula...., agreed ?   Put God on a schedule ?, not sure .....

my son Josh had high fever once [I mean in and out of consciousness and every time he came out he screamed, his head, floppy on the end of his neck]. The more I prayed, pleaded rather, the more he screamed,I,standing in faith, him bundled up and screaming holding his little head in both hands,I could not see this child like this one more second,fear took over, no more faith, so I thought - I took this little bundle, 3yrs old and drove to a doctor,jumped the line, Josh was diagnosed with chicken pocks, mmm... I had,had chicken pocks and the symptoms were not even close.He had a fair rash,yes, but not like chicken pocks I had as a kid.

As this was a building with many doctors, I,not being satisfied with the chicken pox diagnosis, simply "barged" into another consulting room and made a demand on a strange doctor who was busy with someone else, thought it may be Encephalitis - if I wanted an appointment I would have to wait in line, this would take ages so I left and went the hospital nearby, I was shouting for help at the front desks,where all the computers and clerks sit and a long line of people waiting,Josh was a whiter shade of pale,and giving it stick screaming,when out of the blue a man taps me on the shoulder and says "I'm a Pediatrician, may I have a look at your boy? "whaaat, is the Pope Catholic" he quickly checks eyes,throat etc. lifts the little foot and said he has a bite under the foot and it certainly looks like a tick bite,"follow me to my rooms and we will give the boy something for pain" Josh had a good dose of Tick bite fever, doc treated him at no charge, he told me "no antibiotics, lets just manage the pain" [Josh has never been sick since,beside a snotty nose now and then]

Bottom line  is I got an answer I would not let go, I made demands on God, and man, it did not matter I did not care, my child was in severe pain and at all costs even the folk who stared and gawked at my shouting for help did not phase me, My child phased me Likewise Jairus, a senior figure, did not care what those under him thought, he was desperate his daughter was at the point of something bad,I believe God brings us to desperate and then gives his Child the nod,When the blind beggar started shouting "Jesus son of David, have mercy on me" the folk around him told him to "shut up",this made him shout even louder.He got the attention and then got his healing [he was blind and poor and had no qualification to be healed] neither did I,I had no med aid and according to man and the onlookers, how dare i cause a "scene" I dare because men did not phase me, Josh did.

Now this was not cancer however until a proper diagnosis I was thinking it was worse than cancer, the doc told me the poison of a tick, gives an adult an excruciating headache so imagine a 3 year old.

It is when we begin to sink and the cry of "LORD SAVE ME" comes out, there, at that point, we impact the Father I believe.

Having 5 kids all in their teens now, I tell them of these things that have happend to build them [many many things have happened frm swallowing turpentine,dog bites to meningitis] and their answer is ...WHAT EVA !  [South African for I'm playing computer games, don't bug me with nonsence] and I just smile....

I have seen some of  Rays teaching thanks to the lady who sent me the links, I am amazed at the depth of word knowledge,and the degree of study that has gone into it,heck, Greek this, hebrew that, arabic what next ,

Faith is needed, so he can be set free to teach further... this [cancer is a hinderence] it MUST go.

Some are of the view  that if Mr.L Ray suffers it is the will of God and God can use this agonising,searing, pain , the torment his wife is going thru ,the fear, his kids, close friends, brothers and sisters,to bring God Glory - I say, our adversary needs to be dealt with.

It is he that is the deceiver,the liar,the [thief ,murderer and destroyer of our faith] my faith is not destroyed in healing it has been tested with fire "thank God not with cancer"

My faith has come pretty close to being destroyed in the financial realm [the ability to live without financial worry has mostly evaded me] I need to work out this provision bit, with fear and trembling,I know there is an answer.I continue to seek

As one person said in another reply " a house divided will not stand",those who believe all things are possible with God, could jointly take a stand,I don't have the choicest way of putting things neither the am I eloquent, but I do know what God does when we humble ourselves and put aside our religious behaviour,the pride,getting a thrill out of proving another wrong,When we walk in love,when we feel the pain a whole family is going thru, that is when our prayer is powerfull.Ask the Lord to give us insight into what pain and misery cancer is,we would not wish it on our worst enemy.

The Kingdom is not about Words or Talk its about Gods Power 1Cor 4 20

[Gina]

I agree -- the kingdom is about God's power.  I've made demands on God too and, you're right, my prayers were answered.  It's just that I personally believe that the prayers were answered in accord with what must be.  I believe that Ray's cancer (in addition to his diabetes, etc.) will be gone one day--according to God's timing.  And I will be thrilled should God make it so in this life so that Ray can continue to teach in this life. 

But here's the thing:  I also believe that Ray will be teaching in the next life, too.  Whether or not God causes the cancer and diabetes, etc., to not take his physical life, does not determine whether he continues to teach in the next life.  He will be teaching for a long, long time -- I see him no other way.

But I'm with you, I do not like to see him (or his wife, or anyone) suffer, and I respect your decision to continue to pray to God in the way you see fit.  I'm still learning.  I wasn't trying to discourage you.

All the best to you and yours, Ian.

[DougE6]

Ian

I love your testimonies and your attitude of not taking no for an answer! I truly truly believe that is a Godly attitude. I thought of the women going through the crowd to Jesus and well as Jairus, as well as the Centurion, and Caleb and Joshua etc etc...

Thanks for sharing.

Welcome to the Forum.

Doug

[Ian 155]

Ian

I love your testimonies and your attitude of not taking no for an answer! I truly truly believe that is a Godly attitude. I thought of the women going through the crowd to Jesus and well as Jairus, as well as the Centurion, and Caleb and Joshua etc etc...

Thanks for sharing.

Welcome to the Forum.

Doug

Ya, think about it did Jesus ever say no ? now you got me thinking "yes and amen" come to mind,ask anything in my name,no you can't be healed because you need to suffer so I can get glory,"no sorry we cant feed so many"...

I think that is what we are meant to do Doug, it kinda just bubbles out when God is getting the glory and one doesn't even know it,so many people need to be encouraged so why not start somewhere

thanks for da welcome ,

I see what you mean re the sarcasm I think I was prejudging I have read a few papers and seen some teachings and yes Jesus seemed to be sarcastic and what about the prophet and the sacrifice - If we just do what he said we should, we would not offend though [we dont know the outcome of what harm may or may not have been done in some of our retorts], even Jesus did not want to offend re the temple tax issue so I'm not to sure that one should promote sarcasm I found "rebuke" a more pertinent term, mind you If we called a woman "Dog" today there would be an outcry.I have decided to "season" my words from now on as I don't know that i feel comfortable calling names and then saying its ok Jesus did.Sometimes I have got into an argument with my wife and have been real sarcastic on scripture issues and there is not a good feeling when you get pulled back to the incident [repentance] there is no carte blanche to grieve the holy spirit.I believe a good salted answer is always best we are then on safe ground that is until I know better at least.

Pride, does come before a fall.


best
Ian

[Ian 155]

I agree -- the kingdom is about God's power.  I've made demands on God too and, you're right, my prayers were answered.  It's just that I personally believe that the prayers were answered in accord with what must be.  I believe that Ray's cancer (in addition to his diabetes, etc.) will be gone one day--according to God's timing.  And I will be thrilled should God make it so in this life so that Ray can continue to teach in this life. 

But here's the thing:  I also believe that Ray will be teaching in the next life, too.  Whether or not God causes the cancer and diabetes, etc., to not take his physical life, does not determine whether he continues to teach in the next life.  He will be teaching for a long, long time -- I see him no other way.

But I'm with you, I do not like to see him (or his wife, or anyone) suffer, and I respect your decision to continue to pray to God in the way you see fit.  I'm still learning.  I wasn't trying to discourage you.

All the best to you and yours, Ian.

thanks Madam,
Some of us are used for noble and some are used for ignoble purposes,however If a promise exists re our well being,the promise is not a lie The word cannot lie. If I say to my son "hey, you can have a round trip fully paid for, to a destination of your choosing" and he takes me up on the offer I must have what I offered, otherwise i am a deceiver,fraud and a liar.Since God is non of these, that should spur our faith to believe what he said is true.

There is most [ALL] times a wrestling match first, as you stand unmoved by what you see, unmoved by what you hear, you become a usefull tool in the Fathers hand if you see your faith thru until you acquire what you asked for [you can now be a witness to what God has done]. Your adversary would come with his old trick, right from Eve's time [Did God say that ?]Or what about the doctor who diagnosed such and such - well what did God have to say ? and then based on what the king has decreed we take our direction.Like I said I am still doing a lot of faith exercise and have discovered what worked last time will not necessary work this time and the fire can get pretty hot - sometimes I fail and sometimes I get what I asked for, God tests one thing and that is our Faith and it is the only thing that pleases him.I have just been reminded while writing this that Jesus always said to his disciples
You take a stand against the flow of unbelief and you will see that you will get a lot of opposition,and what does God say ? Use MY WORD, FOR MY WORD IS SHARPER THAN ANY TWO EDGE SWORD,and It never returns without accomplishing that which it sets out to do - and it causes great damage to the plans and the "ego" of carnality.

BTW and i stand to be corrected,did you notice Jesus reprimanded the disciples often "You of Little Faith" "have Faith", 'where is your faith" etc

I cannot find a scripture where Jesus admonished the folk that were not his chosen, but only find lines like "great is your faith,"I have never come across such great faith""your faith has made you well"
interesting...

What a great testimony, if, after all the reports of L Ray's condition we all declare Gods word over his present trial and not the doc's word, I can imagine the absolute joy in his family when Gods word returns accomplished, can you? ["That your joy may be full or complete"]

this is how I read my word and is not necessary the way others do

best

Ian

[Gina]

He is the Great Physician!

[Gina]

Dear Ian,

I hope you're doing alright. 

Thanks for praying for Ray and his family.   James 5:16...buddddyyy!!!

Gina

[Duane]

Ian155--WELCOME on board. 
We ALL come with our "baggage" but I must say that you have much to bear!  Just "come as you are" --you will feel right at home with us miscreants of established religion.
You will learn lots when you follow through with Kat's suggested readings and that will quickly get you on the "same page" with the rest of us --as we STILL learn as eagerly as newcomers. 
We pray for Ray that he will be with us eonian.