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Author Topic: Punishment of the wicked  (Read 4258 times)

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AK4

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Re: Punishment of the wicked
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2012, 06:37:51 PM »

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author=mharrell08

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Where did you get this kind of teaching from? 'Seem like an eternity of suffering'? Where do we read of the Elect wishing judgment on the wicked to seem 'like an eternity of suffering'?

I knew someone will take this the wrong way.  Please pay attention to all my words and notice i never said what what you implied--in all due respect.

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I read over your first comments numerous times before answering and quoted your words 'seeming like an eternity'. I know what you said, but that doesn't change the fact that it is unscriptural. That might be the real reason why you assumed 'people would take it the wrong way'.
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Well i had a rebuttal and hit the wrong key and erased it all.  Oh well.  If you feel like i said something unscriptural, fine but i didnt.  What seems like "forever" or "eternal" or "everlasting" to one may be a short time another.  Read the first part of verse 19 again


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You cried and prayed it won't be 'that way' but since you know the plan of God, it won't be that way...right?
It wont be eternal and all of us here know that.  I thought i conveyed this in my post.  FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE and the way they view their hell, in their minds, it may seem eternal or how one would say "taking forever". 
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So it 'won't be that way' (whatever way you are implying but not outright saying) but then it 'still shakes you to your core'. Which is it?

Yes it wont be that way and yes as Isa 28:19 says "19 ....The understanding of this message will bring sheer terror." But notice i said i prayed to God after "understanding this message" to show me the other side because when the understanding of the message that brought me sheer terror spooked me, it spooked me to a point where i wasnt thinking straight and on the final outcome for those in Judgment.

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Let me be frank with you: This post reminds me of Bill Weiss and his testimony (that made him cry and pray that it won't be 'that way').

Wow i like it when people "be frank" but you dishonored me with that.  I didnt just start this thread without thoroughly thinking it through and praying about it for months on end.  You claim i made unscriptural claims when i did not.  I said i didnt post much because i didnt want the thread to get locked because people saying "I saw this or that" in some kind of "so-called" vision.  I didnt post many scriptures because i wasnt trying to "teach" or point someone into thinking a certain way.  My main point of my post was about how God will purge the mind and heart of the wicked and my "focus" was about how they believe eternal/everlasting/forever and that IT MAY SEEM like eternity to them when this purging starts just like for some of us when we had to unlearn some of babylons ways, to some it may have FELT like an eternity or it SEEMED like forever when of course reality shows otherwise.

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You've taken a single rhetorical question from Ray ('has any one of you also seen the punishment of the wicked?') and turned into a testimony of some kind of agonizing experience for those in judgment.

No.  No i did not.  Yet, even if i did, scriptures tells us that those in judgment will not be having a party.  You have greatly misread my post.

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And yet, seeing that you know the Elect will be doing this judging, for some strange reason you have not, or will not, picture yourself causing this agony to those in judgment. I'm sorry but that's a load of crap.

Like i said i like people being frank because i try to do it myself.  I know we will be doing the judging and maybe we will be "causing agony" being that we will be priests of God and Christ teaching them the truth which they probably will agonize over in some way or another.  (i guess i should put something here so i am not misunderstood ---this "agonizing" is the renewing of their mind nothing physical and distorted as you say i am portraying like Bill Wiese)
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The conclusion of this matter is simple: For those of you who want to know how the wicked and unbelieving will be judged, just ask yourself one simple question. How do I want to judge and teach these people righteousness? And if you can answer that question with a clear conscience, with the Holy Scriptures as a guide, then you are more than on your way to understanding.

By misunderstanding me you assumed also that i havent meditated on this for countless hours and i dont try to make sure to "test the spirits" to the scriptures. Im sorry but you have dishonored me as if i havent learned anything since being here for over 5 years.


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P.S. I've made my point and will not comment further on this thread. It's not based on any article on BT but just someone's vision, that only they have seen, but he feels he is being misunderstood. How surprising...

Ive made mine also and hopefully this thread can keep going.  I addressed what needed to be said and no hard feelings. I know what i have said is based on what i learned from God, Rays articles and this forum.  If need be i can back up everything i put with multiple scriptures.  I never gave details on "some vision" and would not unless the Spirit moved me to therefore based on just what i put in my posts i was misunderstood and no thats not surprising.

All in Love though

Anthony
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 06:49:18 PM by AK4 »
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indianabob

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Re: Punishment of the wicked
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2012, 01:37:02 AM »

Hi Anthony,
I'm 77 and have four loving children who will not be in the first resurrection as far as I can tell at this time.
If I am to be one of the elect and if I should be permitted to greet my son or daughter when they are resurrected (we don't know that) I can assure you that they will not even be aware that they are to be admonished or corrected.
Our first communications, for the first few hours, days or longer will be to offer reassurance and love and to put them at ease.
My first priority will be to explain what has just happened to them and why they are alive again. Then perhaps a tour around the environment or place where they are being cared for, perhaps a sip of cool water and certainly a big fatherly or brotherly hug. These are my children, the fruit of my loins and the kids whose little butts I washed when they were infants. Why in the name of all that is righteous would I begin by showing them their sins or admonishing them? What good would it do? How would it reassure them that they were in safe hands? I submit that that approach would be counter productive and not evidence of God's confident love for all of His children.

No my friend, that is not the way Lord Jesus would have us to bind up the wounds of our beloved children. Actually, as one of the elect of God and a servant of Lord Jesus, my very presence with them will put them at ease. If any emotion is felt it will be one of joy and confidence that all is well.

Kindly offered, Indiana Bob
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Gina

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Re: Punishment of the wicked
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2012, 01:56:12 AM »

That's a beautiful word picture, Bob.  Thank you. :)
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AK4

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Re: Punishment of the wicked
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2012, 05:21:30 AM »

Hi Anthony,
I'm 77 and have four loving children who will not be in the first resurrection as far as I can tell at this time.
If I am to be one of the elect and if I should be permitted to greet my son or daughter when they are resurrected (we don't know that) I can assure you that they will not even be aware that they are to be admonished or corrected.
Our first communications, for the first few hours, days or longer will be to offer reassurance and love and to put them at ease.
My first priority will be to explain what has just happened to them and why they are alive again. Then perhaps a tour around the environment or place where they are being cared for, perhaps a sip of cool water and certainly a big fatherly or brotherly hug. These are my children, the fruit of my loins and the kids whose little butts I washed when they were infants. Why in the name of all that is righteous would I begin by showing them their sins or admonishing them? What good would it do? How would it reassure them that they were in safe hands? I submit that that approach would be counter productive and not evidence of God's confident love for all of His children.

No my friend, that is not the way Lord Jesus would have us to bind up the wounds of our beloved children. Actually, as one of the elect of God and a servant of Lord Jesus, my very presence with them will put them at ease. If any emotion is felt it will be one of joy and confidence that all is well.

Kindly offered, Indiana Bob

I second Gina.  That was beautiful.  Thats sounds pretty much like what I prayed for also.  Not only for my kids and family but for all of Gods children. Although scripture says there will be weeping as one for their only child, there will still be joy in that also i believe.

Beautiful Bob
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Revilonivek

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Re: Punishment of the wicked
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2012, 12:28:29 PM »

Hello,
 
About the punishment of the wicked. I am sure in the English translation, this  usage of words is a poor choice of words like Ray says, Punishment is really judgement/Chastisements, and we know that Judgement is designed to rehabilitate the person for the better.

I donít know if this helps you but I look at the elect as my older brothers in spirit. They are Family. Younger siblings learn from their older siblings. The elect are the ones who have already evolved to a new creation- they have transformed into the Image of the Father. They have overcome all weaknesses of this world- They understand and know how to help you.

They transformed into the new creation because of Godís grace, love, patience, mercy, no revenge, and strengthen us through our weaknesses. You know the saying... The suffering we go through makes us stronger.  God is hard on the elect because we have a big job to do... Help the rest of our younger brothers and sisters evolve.  We are to extend the same grace, mercy, patience, love, slow to anger, no revenge, etc to our younger siblings as God has extended the same for us.  We are to love our enemies. The Elect do have a big job.

The Elect possess all the qualities of the Father- They all have the spirit of God- Thereís no judgmentsí according to the flesh but your mind.  they donít criticize- they don't get offended. they donít put you down by showing they love you less because of your sins, They will never love you less. They donít act on revenge on those who hurt them back in former life. After all they overcame all weaknesses. They care about you as their own- They see you as Family.  The mankind is Family that left and is now coming back- like the prodigal son story. They want you to succeed in evolving and will continue to help you, guide you till you are completely evolved.
 
Since at that day, they will know your mind, they will see your strengths and weaknesses. They will know you. They will probably show you how deep sins has impacted others. How your sins impacted others around you and help you learn from it and help you according to your weaknesses.  You are part of them- they are part of you- You are their family. They want you to join the family. They will make sure you are helped the right way.

It is just what it is. It's family helping family. We are to help one another in love. Judge by love's standard. Help them evolve the right way.  God loved us since before we were sinners, while we were sinners and will continue to love us the same as we evolve into new creation.  He will continue to love us. It will never end.  We are his family; the elect are our family too. they love us that much. They just wants us to evolve as much as The Father does. It is what it isÖ It is the older siblingsí helping the younger siblings. That is beautiful. Helping one another grow. That will take a lot of patience, and all the qualities of the Father to do so.

The Elect has to be fully qualified- Not 50 percent qualified or 99 percent qualified- they have to be 100 percent qualified in order to help the rest of mankind-There is no room for carnal error, no room for the beast to exist.  After all the younger siblings do learn and look up to their older siblingsí example as they grow up in spirit and physically.  The elect are our spiritual guides in helping us evolve.

On the subject of visions,  I would be careful though about criticizing other people visions stories.  anyone can be changed by their experiences with their visions. It's happened often in the bible, it's influenced many people and their minds like Saul, Solomon, Daniel, Peter, Paul, John, Jesus, Stephen etc, and sometimes they are so profound they change one's life for the better or worse. You get the idea.  I know it is not limited to those people in the bible. People do write about their own stories because of the way it impacted their lives. It can be a beautiful thing, God may be dealing with them bit by bits like Bill Weiss.. HE could be showing him how crazy their doctrines believe in... Who knows? We donít know what went on in their minds. God does. We don't read minds. Why should we judge? Sometimes their experiences influenced them so profound and so deep that it impacted their lives the rest of their lives.  It is between them and God.  I know some people take advantage of it but really it is between them and God. It's a deeply spiritual experiences. You can say... BUT... but really  It is between them and God in the end.
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indianabob

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Re: Punishment of the wicked
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2012, 12:54:59 PM »

Thank you Revilonivek,

I could not have said it better.
God does of course admonish & correct the Sons He loves; AND IT HURTS.
And it will be as you so aptly put it, with great patience and long suffering toward them; just as it is and shall continue to be with each of us.
Change is not easy, correction is not pleasant and for some it will take longer, but we have the assurance that God shall succeed in all His desire.

Can ANYTHING be too hard for God?
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Gina

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Re: Punishment of the wicked
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2012, 12:57:35 PM »

Having a person examine their own words is a good form of correction/judgment. 

We're to be transformed by the renewing of our minds.  If what's in the mind of an individual doesn't line up with the Truth, it's alright for someone who knows better to pick it apart, examine it, and hand it back to them and say to them, "Does this make really make sense to you?  Well, does it?" 

The danger is not in having a person examine themselves and their words.  Just the opposite is true.

If they're seeking the truth, they'll quickly come around.  And I believe that's happening right here and now.
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thetruth

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Re: Punishment of the wicked
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2012, 02:03:10 PM »

Hello Gina

Much wisdom in this statement:If what's in the mind of an individual doesn't line up with the Truth, it's alright for someone who knows better to pick it apart, examine it, and hand it back to them and say to them, "Does this make really make sense to you?  Well, does it?" 

The danger is not in having a person examine themselves and their words.  Just the opposite is true.

If they're seeking the truth, they'll quickly come around.  And I believe that's happening right here and now.

How true this is my friend .I remember when i first come to bt and had all that false teaching to deal with.And as truth smacked me in the face.I quickly came around!Praise God!
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onelovedread

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Re: Punishment of the wicked
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2012, 03:41:24 PM »

Sometimes we think we're in truth, when in reality we're deluded. Only the Spirit of God can give us the ability to discern. Christendom sincerely believes they've got the truth
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