Ray Reveals His Creed

[indianabob]

Quote;

I think I completely misunderstood your question.  What was Jesus first, you asked, meaning was he first man or first God?  Is that what you're asking?


Friends,
Hasn't Ray Smith written; "first the physical then the spiritual"?
And could that apply to Lord Jesus the man as well as it does to us?
Begotten of God and born of woman, then raised to life as man, then ascended to the Father as King of future kings, the elect.

If not why not?
I don't recall the source, but perhaps someone may know.
Indiana Bob

[Kat]

Friends,
Hasn't Ray Smith written; "first the physical then the spiritual"?
And could that apply to Lord Jesus the man as well as it does to us?
Begotten of God and born of woman, then raised to life as man, then ascended to the Father as King of future kings, the elect.

If not why not?
I don't recall the source, but perhaps someone may know.
Indiana Bob

The source of that statement was not Ray, it comes from Apostle Paul.

1Cor 15:46  But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3316.0 -----------------------

What constitutes "God?" Was Jesus "God?' when He was in the flesh? ETc., etc., etc.,   etc.  "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US"  (Matt. 1:23).  Well now, was Jesus "a man with us" or "GOD with us?" Some claim that Jesus WAS THE FATHER IN FLESH. Makes one wonder who in the world Jesus prayed to if that were the case?  Did He pray to HIMSELF?  On the other hand, there are now those trying to deceive bible-truth.com readers into believing that Jesus was so totally FLESH, that "He was MADE SIN" rather than made "a sin OFFERING." 

Jesus was a MAN with the MIND OF GOD. Jesus "emptied" (Phil. 2:5, "But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and WAS [Greek for 'was' means "EMPTIED"]...." My margin says: "emptied himself of His privileges."  Jesus gave up many of His prior privileges when He was made a littler lower than the angels for the express purpose of being able to DIE (Heb. 2:9).  Notice that He was "crowned with GLORY and honour," yet He gave up much of His glory in becoming human, and that is why He prayed that His Father would RESTORE the glories that He had with His Father from before the foundation of the world (John 17:5). Etc.
     
   
    God be with you,
    Ray

[lauriellen]

a quote from Ray's paper 'Solving the Enigma of God":
"If Jesus and Jehovah are just different spellings of the very same name, how can Jesus be Jehovah and Jehovah be Jesus? Good question, and I will try to solve that enigma for you in my paper "Solving the Enigma of God." But for now, let's notice a few things that do prove that this is so."

...notice he writes "let's notice a few things that do PROVE THAT THIS IS SO.".........

[theophilus]

I think I completely misunderstood your question.  What was Jesus first, you asked, meaning was he first man or first God?  Is that what you're asking?

Yes! I meant was he first man or first God? Greetings! Just waking up. I had a long week at work and my body aches all over.

[theophilus]

Quote;

I think I completely misunderstood your question.  What was Jesus first, you asked, meaning was he first man or first God?  Is that what you're asking?


Friends,
Hasn't Ray Smith written; "first the physical then the spiritual"?
And could that apply to Lord Jesus the man as well as it does to us?
Begotten of God and born of woman, then raised to life as man, then ascended to the Father as King of future kings, the elect.

If not why not?
I don't recall the source, but perhaps someone may know.
Indiana Bob

That's right. Was he first man or first God?

[Gina]

I think I completely misunderstood your question.  What was Jesus first, you asked, meaning was he first man or first God?  Is that what you're asking?

Yes! I meant was he first man or first God? Greetings! Just waking up. I had a long week at work and my body aches all over.

Hi there!   I hope you're feeling better.   JFK answered your question pretty well.  But here it is from the bible itself.  Read it and tell me what you conclude:

The Word Became Flesh

John Chapter 1

vs. 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

vs 2  He was with God in the beginning.

vs 3  Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

vs 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

vs 5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

vs 14  The Word [which is God] BECAME FLESH [a human man] and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

[levycarneiro]

Just something interesting I found today on the Concordant Version:

John 1
1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word.
2 This was in the beginning toward God.

Instead of "with God" it says - at least in this version - "was toward God".

Found it interesting. Pondering what that might mean as opposed to "with God".

[theophilus]

I think I completely misunderstood your question.  What was Jesus first, you asked, meaning was he first man or first God?  Is that what you're asking?

Yes! I meant was he first man or first God? Greetings! Just waking up. I had a long week at work and my body aches all over.

Hi there!   I hope you're feeling better.   JFK answered your question pretty well.  But here it is from the bible itself.  Read it and tell me what you conclude:

The Word Became Flesh

John Chapter 1

vs. 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

vs 2  He was with God in the beginning.

vs 3  Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

vs 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

vs 5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

vs 14  The Word [which is God] BECAME FLESH [a human man] and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Thank you! Yes, I'm feeling better.

Yup, it's very clear. The gospel writer identifies the Word as Jesus. He was "at that time" referred to as THE WORD. It almost seems like God uttered this WORD. Upon doing so, the universe came into being, and ultimately, God's utterance became flesh.

My native language is Spanish. THE WORD is translated as THE VERB into Spanish from the Greek. If we were to use this form in the English translation, it would read IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE VERB, AND THE VERB WAS WITH GOD, AND THE VERB WAS GOD. We all know that a verb expresses an action. I think in this case the action was a creative one. I can picture God "speaking" this action verb causing our universe to come into existence.

Mind you, this is not a belief that I have. It's just a conjecture. And yes, I do believe in Jesus. I've witnessed his authority in action.

[theophilus]

Just something interesting I found today on the Concordant Version:

John 1
1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word.
2 This was in the beginning toward God.

Instead of "with God" it says - at least in this version - "was toward God".

Found it interesting. Pondering what that might mean as opposed to "with God".

Hi Levy, come to think of it, I had read about that rendering of John 1:1. I think it means something like the Word was in the presence of God or face to face with God.

[levycarneiro]

Just something interesting I found today on the Concordant Version:

John 1
1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word.
2 This was in the beginning toward God.

Instead of "with God" it says - at least in this version - "was toward God".

Found it interesting. Pondering what that might mean as opposed to "with God".

Hi Levy, come to think of it, I had read about that rendering of John 1:1. I think it means something like the Word was in the presence of God or face to face with God.

Hey theophilus,

maybe that the Word was going towards becoming God too, and indeed became God and He became God even before the world was created (by Himself, the Word). Firstborn among many brothers, like He is so are we.

God bless,
Levy

[Gina]

Thank you! Yes, I'm feeling better.

Yup, it's very clear. The gospel writer identifies the Word as Jesus. He was "at that time" referred to as THE WORD. It almost seems like God uttered this WORD. Upon doing so, the universe came into being, and ultimately, God's utterance became flesh.

My native language is Spanish. THE WORD is translated as THE VERB into Spanish from the Greek. If we were to use this form in the English translation, it would read IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE VERB, AND THE VERB WAS WITH GOD, AND THE VERB WAS GOD. We all know that a verb expresses an action. I think in this case the action was a creative one. I can picture God "speaking" this action verb causing our universe to come into existence.

Mind you, this is not a belief that I have. It's just a conjecture. And yes, I do believe in Jesus. I've witnessed his authority in action.

Now you're on the right track.

[theophilus]

Just something interesting I found today on the Concordant Version:

John 1
1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word.
2 This was in the beginning toward God.

Instead of "with God" it says - at least in this version - "was toward God".

Found it interesting. Pondering what that might mean as opposed to "with God".

Hi Levy, come to think of it, I had read about that rendering of John 1:1. I think it means something like the Word was in the presence of God or face to face with God.

Hey theophilus,

maybe that the Word was going towards becoming God too, and indeed became God and He became God even before the world was created (by Himself, the Word). Firstborn among many brothers, like He is so are we.

God bless,
Levy

Hello Levy, here's a rendition of John 1:1-2 by the Orthodox Jewish Bible:

Yochanan 1
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
1 Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:3], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with, etzel, Mishle 8:30;30:4) Hashem, and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13 i.e., the Ma'amar Memra]
2 Bereshis (in the Beginning) this Dvar Hashem was with Hashem [Prov 8:30].

Quoted verses:

Yeshayah 55:11 (Isaiah)
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
11 So shall My Davar (the Word of Hashem) be that goeth forth out of My mouth; He shall not return unto Me reikam (empty, void) but He [the Davar Hashem, see Yn 1:1,14 (John 1:1,14)] shall do that which I please, and He [the Davar Hashem] shall accomplish the purpose whereto I sent Him.

Bereshis 1:3
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
3 And Elohim said, Let there be light: and there was light [Tehillim 33:6,9].

Tehillim 33:6
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
6 By the Devar Hashem were Shomayim made; and all the tz'va (host) of them by the ruach (breath) of His mouth [MJ 11:3; Yn 1:1; Psa 56:5].

Mishle 8:30 (Proverbs 8:30)
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
30 Then I was etzel (at the side of, beside [see Yn 1:1]) Him, as an Amon (master craftsman, builder, architect, artist); and I was daily His delight (or daily fille with delight), rejoicing always before Him [Mishle 30:4]

Yochanan 17:5
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
5 And now give me kavod, Avi, along with Yourself with the kavod which I was having with You before HaOlam came to be [Yn 1:1 3; Prov 8:30; 30:4].

Mishle 30:4
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
4 Who hath ascended into Shomayim, or descended? Who hath gathered ruach in the hollows of His hands? Who hath bound the mayim in a cloak? Who hath established all the afsei aretz (ends of the earth)? What is Shmo (His Name), and what is Shem Bno (the Name of His Son [See Memra, creative Word of G-d in Targumim]), if thou canst tell?

Tehillim 56 10(11) (Psalms)
10 (11) In Elohim will I praise His Word; in Hashem will I praise His Word [Yn 1:1; Mishlei 30:4; Ps 33:6; Mishlei 8:30].

Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
Copyright © 2002, 2003, 2008, 2010, 2011 by Artists for Israel International


THIS IS AWESOME!!! PRAISED BE OUR GOD!!!

[Rhys 🕊]

Interesting but way over my head but God bless you theophilus and great to meet you.

Rhys

[theophilus]

Interesting but way over my head but God bless you theophilus and great to meet you.

Rhys

Hello Rhys! God bless you too!

It's not way over either one of us' heads. I provided the names of the books referred to that we are all familiar with. This is just another version of scripture, a Jewish one. Great to meet you too!

[Rhys 🕊]

Excellent. Yes I see that. My brain is a bit slow and goes into safe mode now and then. I often have to tell myself listen to the Lord then your roofer. 


Rhys

[theophilus]

Excellent. Yes I see that. My brain is a bit slow and goes into safe mode now and then. I often have to tell myself listen to the Lord then your roofer. 


Rhys

hahahaha! that's funny. Safe mode, ha? which operating system are you "running"?

[Rhys 🕊]

Jesus 7.0 Operating System

[levycarneiro]

Jesus 7.0 Operating System

I was going to say: Mac OS, the one with the bitten apple

God bless!

[theophilus]

LOL! You guys are funny! We do run on an operating system. It's called BOULEMA 1.0. That is God's will; God's boulema. This is the will of God that cannot possibly be stopped.

This is that will through which God is "operating ALL THINGS according to the counsel of His own will. Ephesians 1:11

God bless you guys.