Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Truth96130]

Genesis 3:22 KJV
And the LORD God said , Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat , and live for ever...

It is clear from this verse that the tree of life can make someone live forever if they eat it.

1. Is this how people will become immortal someday? Revelation 22:14 KJV

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

2. Do only those that have access to the tree of life have immortality?

[Truth96130]

Rev. 22/17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.

Rev. 22/1-2  Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb  down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.

If God is in the city and his servants are also in the city Rev.22/3 then only people left are the nations that are (not yet Gods servants) because all of Gods servants are in the city. If all Christens are in the city then all the nations (out side the city) are logically those in Rev. 22/15
If the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations and the only nations are the unsaved, then the leaves are for the healing of the unsaved on the outside of the city.

[Truth96130]

It appears the the only thing in the city that ALL people can take freely is the river of life.
The only water that Jesus is said to give people, is water that gives them everlasting life.
John 4/14 But whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
The river of life is from Jesus and that water will springing up into everlasting life.
If the tree of life gives everlasting life then the water of life gives everlasting life.
All people are allowed to drink of the water of life. Rev. 22/17 

[mharrell08]

Genesis 3:22 KJV
And the LORD God said , Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat , and live for ever...

It is clear from this verse that the tree of life can make someone live forever if they eat it.

1. Is this how people will become immortal someday? Revelation 22:14 KJV

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

2. Do only those that have access to the tree of life have immortality?

Yes and Yes...and this is all symbolism, Jesus Christ is the tree of life.

Rev. 22/17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.

Rev. 22/1-2  Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb  down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.

If God is in the city and his servants are also in the city Rev.22/3 then only people left are the nations that are (not yet Gods servants) because all of Gods servants are in the city. If all Christens are in the city then all the nations (out side the city) are logically those in Rev. 22/15
If the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations and the only nations are the unsaved, then the leaves are for the healing of the unsaved on the outside of the city.

It appears the the only thing in the city that ALL people can take freely is the river of life.
The only water that Jesus is said to give people, is water that gives them everlasting life.
John 4/14 But whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
The river of life is from Jesus and that water will springing up into everlasting life.
If the tree of life gives everlasting life then the water of life gives everlasting life.
All people are allowed to drink of the water of life. Rev. 22/17

True & true, as well as keeping in mind this is all symbolism and not literal which I believe you understand. Everything about us, from birth to regeneration to salvation, starts and ends with Jesus Christ. Everything points to Jesus Christ.



Thanks,

Marques

[Mbongiseni]

Hi Truth!

By this "...the tree of life can make someone live forever..."  what do you mean?
" Do only those that have access to the tree of life have immortality?" what tree?

Please consider the following :

"She is a tree of life to those who embrace her..." ( Proverbs 3:18) 
"The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life..." ( Proverbs 11:30) 
"Delayed hope makes the heart sick, but fulfilled desire is a tree of life." ( Proverbs 13:12) 

Mbo

[Kat]

Hi truth,

Here is an excerpt that should help with your questions.

http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html ------------------

The eighth day of this Feast of Tabernacles was called "The Last Great Day of the Feast." Jesus Christ Himself came to the Feast of Tabernacles in Jerusalem and spoke on the Last Great Day:

"In the last day, that GREAT DAY OF THE FEAST, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If ANY MAN thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of LIVING WATER" (John 7:37-38).

At what point in future prophecy, will Jesus Christ CUT OFF the invitation to all and any who are athirst to drink of His LIVING WATERS? Our Lord NEVER cuts off the invitation to drink of the living waters. These waters (a symbol for God’s SPIRIT) will be available until every creature in heaven and earth is saved:

"And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the FOUNTAIN OF THE WATER OF LIFE FREELY" (Rev. 21:6).

"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And WHOSOEVER WILL, let him take the WATER OF LIFE FREELY" (Rev. 22:17).

And this declaration is made just five verses before the END OF THE BIBLE!

But don’t be deceived, Jesus Christ IS the "tree of life" in the Garden, and NO ONE can partake of that tree of life except he first pass the through the "FLAMING SWORD" that points in all directions and guards the tree of life. Remember, "Our God is a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).
------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Mbongiseni]

"She[ Wisdom of God] is a tree of life to those who embrace her..." ( Proverbs 3:18)

[ Christ the Power and Wisdom of God ] For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but it is God’s power to us who are being saved.(1 Corinthians 1:18,24)

I hope that clarifies the mist!
Mbo

[mharrell08]

"She[ Wisdom of God] is a tree of life to those who embrace her..." ( Proverbs 3:18)

[ Christ the Power and Wisdom of God ] For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but it is God’s power to us who are being saved.(1 Corinthians 1:18,24)

I hope that clarifies the mist!
Mbo

Jesus is never referred to as 'she'. The parable you quoted from Proverbs uses a figure of speech known as personification...where something is spoken of as a person. God does this all the time throughout the scriptures. Wisdom is the ability to apply knowledge, not a person, entity, or deity.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[sarahfromcolorado]

Hey truth. I think I came across your YouTube videos when I first started studying what hell really is according to Scripture. Great videos! Interesting question. I'm pretty sure if there was a literal tree of life it symbolized Christ  but how do you take from a literal yet symbolic tree and live forever? If the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was literal then you'd think the tree of life was also... it doesn't make sense for it to be literal but "lest they take and eat..." doesn't seem to make sense if it weren't literal.

[onelovedread]

So the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is distinct and different from the tree of life (Jesus), right?

[Kat]

Hi onelovedread,

So the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is distinct and different from the tree of life (Jesus), right?

Yes the tree of good and evil represent living this life and eating/consuming it, is to experience both good and evil. The Tree of Life indeed represents Jesus Christ and we must eat/consume it to have spiritual life within us.

Hi SarahfromColorado,

Welcome to the forum 

I'm pretty sure if there was a literal tree of life it symbolized Christ  but how do you take from a literal yet symbolic tree and live forever? If the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was literal then you'd think the tree of life was also... it doesn't make sense for it to be literal but "lest they take and eat..." doesn't seem to make sense if it weren't literal.

The fruit of the Tree of Life that we must eat/consume symbolically does represent Christ. It's just like when Christ told them they must eat His flesh, these things have deep spiritual meaning.

John 6:48  I am the bread of life.
v. 49  Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
v. 50  This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die.
v. 51  I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world."
v. 53  Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
v. 54  Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
v. 55  For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed.
v. 56  He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
v. 57  As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.
v. 58  This is the bread which came down from heaven--not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever."

We must eat/consume/internalize what Christ is and as we do we become more 'like' Him. But many people find this just too hard a thing to comprehend.

John 6:60  Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, "This is a hard saying; who can understand it?"
v. 61  When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, "Does this offend you?
v. 62  What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?
v. 63  It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
v. 66  From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
v. 67  Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?"

Remember what Christ said "It is written, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God" (Luke 4:4). We need this "Bread of Life" to be apart of us to live spiritually, as much as we need physical food to continue living this life. God gives us His Holy spirit as a gift, but we need to feed it continually with the 'Bread of Life," which is to actively pursue righteousness in pray, study and meditation. Then Christ will live in us in our words and actions.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Revilonivek]

To talk about the last post by Kat, I wanted to add that Even it helps to see Jesus talk with his wise words. I am sure he was sort of giving body language while he spoke to help explain what he was trying to say. Just by reading words alone, its hard to understand completely but It does help to see Jesus speak while giving body language, facial expression and so on. You get the idea.

I think he was saying we are to continuously  feed our spiritual mind with meditation, righteousness, pray study like we continuously feed our physical bodies with food. it is what sustain us. It is just what we need, we just need it to survive, it keeps us content. its what makes us free.  It gives us life in spiritual mind like physical food gives us life in the physical flesh. It is what we need, otherwise we would be starved and poor. That is why Those who search for the truth are starved- they follow the crumbs like we do,Its in our instinct to look and search until we find the unlimited source of food that sustains us and makes us content. That is why Jesus told us to continue to seeek the kingdom of God, because eventually we will find it if we keep on going.

It's that fear.. what if we didn't make it.. scriptures talk about the wedding, uninvited guests  or guests that wasnt dressed properly for the supper was cast out or kept out. Why all that talk? It makes me wonder what if God is giving people a limited TIME to find the living waters or is he making it unlimited access until everyone finds the tree of life?

I can't help it but wonder-

But I really hope that God will make the tree of life accessible to everyone until everyone, every soul makes it. I really hope so.because That's what I would do If I was God. Because its not fair that everyone has limited time on earth- some had 20 years, others had 90 or 100 years. some just had 10 years. some had 50 years only on earth- everyone has their own different arrivals to earth - some are born to different religions- some are born to poor or rich parents- some are born to disabilities, etc etc. We are born with no knowledge of the Truth and having to find it.  It's alot to overcome- all what people need from God is patience, love, kindness, slow to anger, and so on. and see them through- I just hate it when fear runs us.

Just my two cents.

Denise

[indianabob]

God knows how to make things just, it is up to us to trust Him.
All of these parables are wrapped into one and all lead us to understand God's overall purpose IF we are given the understanding.
This parable may be a good starting point.... 

Matthew 20

The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard

 1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius[a] for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
   3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.

   “He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’

   7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.

   “He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’

   8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

   9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

   13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

   16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

[Kat]

Hi Denise,

It's that fear.. what if we didn't make it.. scriptures talk about the wedding, uninvited guests  or guests that wasnt dressed properly for the supper was cast out or kept out. Why all that talk?

All that 'talk' is to the brethren to encourage them that just because there eyes have been opened to some of the truth, they are not guaranteed the first resurrection. I think of the parable of the sower and the seed of Luke 8, look and all that have their eyes opened; "those by the wayside are the ones who hear" and "the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy" and "the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard." All these had their eyes opened, but by many ways they also lost out on the first resurrection.

That parable reiterates 'How Hard is Getting Saved?' (article at this link http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3849.0.html ). The first resurrection is quite a prize that only the very few that, by God's ordained will, strive and overcome.

But I really hope that God will make the tree of life accessible to everyone until everyone, every soul makes it. I really hope so.

It's not a question IF the 'Tree of Life' - Jesus Christ will be accessible to everyone, it's just a matter of WHEN and Paul explains it's in their on order.

1Cor 15:23  But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.   

God is sovereign, He can not and will not fail! His "desire" to save "all" will happen, "all My cousel shall be confirmed."

1Tim 2:4  who desires ALL MEN to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Isa 46:10 Telling from the beginning, the hereafter, and from aforetime, what has not yet been done. Saying, `All My counsel shall be confirmed, and all My desire will I do.'" (CLV)

All will be saved... the first resurrection is something else, a very special reward for a very few preordained to have it. So do you sit back and say, 'oh well, it's not up to me.'? Think about it, God will inspire the few to strive to be overcomers. So STRIVE, at least then you are in the race.

Luke 13:24  Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Revilonivek]

Yes, we should all strive. You are right- The thing is. Timothy in the NT, he had a spiritual father/mentor/coach/someone he looks up to. Paul teaches him everything. He speaks in metaphors to help him understand.

To me, Timothy's lucky to have someone who understands the truth. Someone who constantly talks to Timothy whenever he doesn't understand something. Paul was Timothy's go to person when it comes to spiritual things. Its how people learn. Not everyone has that opportunity. Its like when you are around the right person, it's bound to change you. The apostles had Jesus for a time. Jesus was the apostles' mentor. Jesus worked closely with them. Paul was a mentor to Timothy and many others but He was very close to Luke and Timothy from the looks of things. It does help to have a mentor in your life that understands the truth. I am sure Paul had the apostles that helped him for a time too.

In 2 Timothy 4:7, he was talking to his son, Timothy, He bought up metaphor story about the physical race. He told Timothy to look at life as a race- that it didn't matter whether you finished first, second, third, or whatnot. but it was important to finish the race well. To successfully finish the race. Paul told Timothy that He finished the race. at first I thought- How did he know he "finished" the race. He was still alive. He explained that he carried out God's mission for him and that he finished the race and encouraged Timothy to do the same way he did. To finish the race by carrying out God's mission for him. It was just a metaphor, to show that it is important to continue until he successfully carry out God's mission.

To be honest, if life was truly a race... then It's a "fixed" race. It's just a metaphor though. But we are to strive to finish the best we can with all we got. We don't all have the same opprounities that the apostles had, or what Timothy had,  If anyone ran in a marathon- they understand that it takes endurance and diligence to keep on going because eventually you'll get to the finish line. Not the concept that it's a race- race but he was referring to the emotion/stress that we all go through in a RACE.

LIke the parable Jesus said about the sower of the field. We are to strive anyway. I think we all have different foundations and the right conditions in your life will help you succeed. Yu have to have the right "teacher" the right person, the right conditions in your life, to help you grow the right way. It's hard. but I am glad that God has a greater plan for the rest of mankind and having those overcomers help the rest of mankind "make it".

[Kat]

Hi John,

I understand what you are saying, I know very well that no one can be saved by their own good works, there is no good in any of us. That is very clear and is not the point I was making. If we are one of the few then we know it is NOT by OUR works, but there surely will be works of God in us.

Ray's article 'Do James and Paul Contradict?' goes into this subject in depth. Here is the part in the article that I am talking about.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9742.msg82513.html#msg82513 -----

There it is! Why can’t people read that, there it is. That’s what Paul says in Ephesians 2, not by your works, but by works of God, you’re His workmanship, He’s going to do good works through you. Here he says, “See you how faith wrought with works, by works was faith made perfect.” Did Paul cast away good works? No, he said he was eager to do them. He said we should be zealous of them.  He mentioned good works in the two page book of Titus about six times. Paul in Ephesians 2, you can’t separate faith and the good works that God will do in you. Can you see now that it’s faith BY works, was faith made perfect? 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not saying we can save ourself if we get out and find ways to product enough good works. No, but the thing is the Spirit will cause you to "strive" and will do good works in you, if you are one of the few. I do not believe that anybody will wake up in the first resurrection and think, 'wow I made it and it wasn't that hard at all, I just waited on God and here I am.' I truly believe to be in that first resurrection His Spirit in us will bring about a great deal of striving and overcoming, which will product good works and you would certainly know you were in a hard, long race to get there. So yes we should strive, that is why Jesus said "Strive (fight, labor fervently) to enter in at the narrow gate" (Luke 13:24).

Just trying to get across my point.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Rene]

I truly believe to be in that first resurrection His Spirit in us will bring about a great deal of striving and overcoming, which will product good works and you would certainly know you were in a hard, long race to get there. So yes we should strive, that is why Jesus said "Strive (fight, labor fervently) to enter in at the narrow gate" (Luke 13:24).

A point well made, Kathy.

René

[Kat]

Hi John, very well put indeed. I am so glad to not have the burden of saving myself 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[ez2u]

Mharrell08   read Isaiah 53:7  study it a little deeper the words

7 He was oppressed and tormented,
   but didn’t open his mouth.
Like a lamb being brought to slaughter,
   like a ewe silent before her shearers,
   he didn’t open his mouth.

[mharrell08]

Mharrell08   read Isaiah 53:7  study it a little deeper the words

7 He was oppressed and tormented,
   but didn’t open his mouth.
Like a lamb being brought to slaughter,
   like a ewe silent before her shearers,
   he didn’t open his mouth.

I'm not understanding the point you are attempting to get across....could you further explain please?