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Prov 18:21 am I rich because I said so or because I was predestined to?

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Mbongiseni:
Hi Pat

The preachers of Babylon are what the scriptures call them... liars... "I expose the false prophets as liars and make fools of fortune-tellers. I cause the wise to give bad advice, thus proving them to be fools.[Isaih 44:25]
Don't worry about them just “Let these false prophets tell their dreams, but let my true messengers faithfully proclaim my every word. There is a difference between straw and grain! [Jeremiah 23:27-29]

Mbo

patmokgoko:
Thank you all, what I am saying is this that if I say with my mouth (repeatedly) that i won't reach 40 how is that going to have an influence on the number of years I am to live because they are set already, even before I was born.Gene you read my mind, Mbo (Mkhaya) I hear you but how do I dig my head in the sand when they (teachers of Babylon) continue to turn and twist the verses? Thanks Kat I will go with Good News: what I say CAN (there is a possibility)...Arion my beloved brother, how do I expose them if I do not listen to them Titus 1:9? Dave I surely learned something from "diminish and amplified". Love you all

Memme:
Hi Pat!

James said:  "If any man among you seem to be religious (ceremonious in worship, pious), and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion (worship) is vain.“ (Jas 1:26) and; “And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell (gehenna).  For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.  Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.  Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?  Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.” (Jam 3:6-12)

Jesus said:  “Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.” (Mat 15:11)

I think Prov 18:21 is speaking of the same principle.  “Death and life are in the power  (Heb: yâd)  of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.”

The pictograph of the Hebrew word yâd is  (sorry, it won't show up here) is a picture of a hand with a picture of a door that allows movement in and out of the tent. Combined these mean "hand moves". The hand is the part of the body that enables man to perform many works.
A) Hand:  With the hand one can throw away or grab hold, kill or heal, make or destroy.
B) Hand:  The work of the hand.
C) Hand: The throwing out of the hand for throwing, praising, or confessing

I did a quick search on yâd and, unless I missed it, it is only translated ‘power’ in one other place (Joshua 8:20);  it is normally translated ‘hand(s)'. 

Our tongue (mouth, words) will reveal the state of our hearts and an untamed, unbridled tongue will throw out bitter water that may seem ‘sweet’ to that tongue (at the time) but will be bitter to the stomach (later) (Eze 3:1-3,Rev 10:9-8)!  All of this, of course, is SPIRITUAL symbolism.  It has nothing to do with being materially ‘rich’ but being spiritually ALIVE in Him and yes, HE is in control and ONLY by/through HIM can that carnal heart be 'destroyed' so that our tongue can be tamed and produce ONLY HIS sweet 'water'.

In His Love, Barbara

Mbongiseni:

You right Mkhaya. At every turn, whichever channel you tune into, every street corner... it's the same - this particular message seems to profit them.

Mbo

GaryK:

--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on March 20, 2012, 03:13:40 AM ---Gene and Pat...it's surely true that all of our choices are caused, including what we say with our mouths.  I think it bears remembering that the choices we are caused to make also become part of the cause for the choices of the rest of our lives.  How else do we 'learn righteousness'?  We 'learn' by experiencing both our failure to obey (and even our inability to obey) and by the practical and spiritual and 'everlasting' good results of obedience.  I see a prime example of this in the very verse you're asking about.  God's sovereignty is not diminished, but amplified.

I don't really see a 'commandment' to 'do' anything in this verse.  I see a vital piece of information for those God is dealing with. 

How do we 'obey' this verse.  These thoughts come to mind, though the word of God is rich and not limited to these.  First, we're not promised earthly riches, and there is a 'down-side' to having them and in desiring them.  See the rest of Scripture for more detail.  Secondly, do we turn this 'verse' into a call to do some sort of 'incantation' or vain repitition to reap some reward?  See the rest of Scripture for more information.  Third, are there not consequences of our actions/words?  Yes there are.  Are they always what we imagine/want them to be?  No, they are not. 

Is it good to tell the truth, to praise God, to edify the brethren?  Yes it is.  Is it harmful to lie, bear false witness, curse, decieve ourselves and others?  Yes it is.  Is it right to control our tongues?  Of course.  It takes all of the fruit of the Spirit to accomplish that, however.  Is God working in All of these things--good and evil?  Yes, He is.  See the rest of Scripture for more.

I'll control my fingers now and stop typing.   :D  Do good.   

--- End quote ---


Good stuff Dave.

gk

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