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Resurrection of the unjust

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mavis92379:
I just re read Rays teaching on spiritual bodies for the wicked and am left with a couple questions ?

Are the unjust mortal when they are raised ?

When do they receive immortality ?

Pauls teaching in 1 Ths 4 is clear on how this happens for believers that at the last trump the dead in Christ shall be raised and those alive will be caught and we will be changed but how is this accomplished for the wicked in giving them immortality ?

Thanks,

Matt

Thanks,

Matt

Kat:

Hi Matt,


--- Quote ---Are the unjust mortal when they are raised ?
--- End quote ---


The way it seems to me is you would be raised with whatever character and personality you died with, you are not raised a different person. That is why there is the judgment of the LOF to purge and cleanse the people.


--- Quote ---When do they receive immortality ?
--- End quote ---


The Bible doesn't seem to address this, but I would say sometime after they repent are cleansed and made righteous.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Rene:

--- Quote from: mavis92379 on March 20, 2012, 08:31:19 AM ---
I just re read Rays teaching on spiritual bodies for the wicked and am left with a couple questions ?


--- End quote ---


Hi Matt,

You do understand that Ray does not teach that the wicked will receive spiritual bodies upon resurrection.  Your statement above may be confusing to someone, therefore I wanted to clarify this point.

Here is where a short paper by Ray can be found on this subject:

PHYSICAL or SPIRITUAL RESURRECTION BODIES FOR THE WICKED & NON-BELIEVERS?
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7474.0.html

Excerpt from this paper:

Now let’s foolishly assume that the wicked are going to be resurrected with “spiritual” bodies. The only place in Scripture that anyone is said to be resurrected with a “spiritual body,” is in these many references in I Cor. 15. So if a resurrected “spiritual body” applies to the unjust and the wicked and the unbelievers, then these attributes which constitute a “spiritual body” resurrection MUST APPLY TO THEM ALSO.  Now then, show me one Scripture anywhere that justifies people like Mao Tse Tung, Adolph Hitler, or Saddam Hussein being resurrected with:

INCORRUPTIBILITY, UNENDING EXISTENCE, GENUINENESS, IMMORTALITY, INCORRUPTION, SINCERITY, GLORY (AS VERY APPARENT GLORY), DIGNITY, GLORY, GLORIOUS, HONOR, PRAISE, WORSHIP, FORCE, MIRACULOUS POWER, ABILITY, ABUNDANCE, MIGHT, MIGHTY, WORKER OF MIRACLES, POWER, STRENGTH,  (‘violence’ only when referencing an carnal person), MIGHTY (wonderful) WORK, NON-CARNAL, ETHEREAL, SPIRIT, DIVINELY, SUPER NATURAL, REGENERATE, RELIGIOUS, SPIRITUAL.

The entire paper is a good one to read and study. :)

René

mavis92379:
Hi Rene,

I referenced the paper in my post and agree with it. My question was when do the wicked receive their immortality ? 

They are raised to be judged and brought to a repentance and salvation. Paul tells us in 1 Ths 4 all the believers will be changed at the same time at the last rump . Is this also true for the wicked that there is one event where all the "wicked" will be changed ?

Believers repent and await the Lords return for their change ! Someone who is raised in the resurrection of the unjust is raised to be judged to lead him to repentance and salvation but they dont really necessarily follow the pattern of awaiting for Christ to return as believers do. So when exactly does there repentance qualify for them for receiving immortality. Is it an individual thing or another event that brings it to them all at the same time ?

Thanks,

Matt

Memme:
Matt, I’ve read this particular paper several times and will admit it is somewhat confusing to me.
 
Scripturally,  it makes sense to me that the wicked will be raised in the same spiritual state in which they die no matter what it ‘appears they will be’.  Jesus said ‘let the dead bury their dead’.  The wicked are dead spiritually and will physically die in that same spiritual state; however, the chosen have, are and will suffer one death (‘I die daily…’) by the Holy Spirit’s fire and have, are and will be REBORN a NEW CREATURE that will also die physically--those who aren't living when He comes will have actually suffered two deaths.   

1Jn 3:2:  "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”

Rev20:14:  "And death and hell (hades) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 21:8:  "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Note the verses before 21:8:  (vs 1-6) “And I perceived a new heaven and a new earth, for the former heaven and the former earth pass away, and the sea is no more.  I perceived the holy city, new Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I hear a loud voice out of the throne saying, "Lo! the tabernacle of God is with mankind, and He will be tabernacling with them, and they will be His peoples, and God Himself will be with them. And He will be brushing away every tear from their eyes. And death will be no more, nor mourning, nor clamor, nor misery; they will be no more, for the former things passed away.  And He Who is sitting on the throne said, "Lo! New am I making all!  And He is saying, "Write, for these sayings are faithful and true.  And He said to me, "I have become the Alpha and the Omega, the Origin and the Consummation. To him who is thirsting I shall be giving of the spring of the water of life gratuitously."  We ALL must pass through the fire to reach Jesus Christ, the tree of life and His living water; however, it seems, God accomplishes this in an opposite order for the 'chosen' vs the wicked.

Although it is unclear (to me at least), it seems that ‘immortality’ will be given to the wicked only after they suffer the second death in the LOF which will burn out their carnality.  Jesus said ‘to him who is thirsting I SHALL be giving of the spring of the water of life gratuitously.’  Those who are suffering the LOF will be ‘thirsting’ for that water just as the rich man did in the parable (Lk 16) but the ‘chasm’ will be closed by Jesus Christ Himself and He 'will be making ALL new!  How glorious and awesome is that?

In Him, Barbara

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