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Sinners PRECEDE the Pharisees into the kingdom of God

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sarahfromcolorado:

--- Quote from: Moises on March 30, 2012, 11:45:08 PM ---
Wow, this tread seem to be moving in so many directions all around, so many good answers and honest questions.


Back to the question of why does Jesus put the average sinner before the Pharisees (religious people). I have read the answer when the situation was showed on a conventional way. With a fast look at it, it seems like the pastors and the people that teach religion on a wrong way have good intention, doesn't make much harm and it's hard to look at them as okay people of society... But, if we would take a wider look at the situation, much of the evils of society have originated from Babylon. It would take a whole study to show how those small churches out there can do so many harm in a long term to peoples hearts. If we would have an small glimpse of how things really work in the world and how the christian religion as a whole influence so many aspects of society, we would not think at all that Jesus was exagerating when fighting the religious leaders of his time.
There is many different levels of sins/mistakes. Drugs harm the body very bad. Spiritual drugs harm the soul very bad.

 

--- End quote ---

Wow, great point Moises. I have heard a few times from unbelievers and from those who once believed that it was those within Christianity that drove them away because of fakeness, hypocrisy or lack of love. I my self have felt more genuinly loved or accepted by people who didn't go to church or believe than those who did.

I am beginning to see more and more how many Christians who spend so much energy trying to get people to "join their club" are no less carnal then the people they try to reach...sometimes they seem even more hard/dark hearted. Though sometimes they may seem very nice and sweet on the outside once you start talking about how they could be wrong about anything, but especially the hell doctrine, they let what they're really like on the inside come out.

I think bringing up the hell and eternal torment teaching to a believer coul be one way to see where their heart is really at.

Some one who really has the love of God in their heart isn't going to get angry or offended when you present even just the posibility that God may not torment his creation. Instead of accusing you of being a heretic or condemning you to their hell they'll actually listen to WHY you believe what you do.

acomplishedartis:

Sarah, I am glad you saw something good in my post. I know what you mean regarding filigrees. But I was referring myself more to the church leaders, to the teachers that are not good t what they do. Because many times they know better regarding specific points and still don't do anything. They put heavy burden on people and don't do them themselves. The filigrees are mostly ignorant crowds that don't like to think for themselves very often.... But yeah, I know your point.
And I was a church goer filigree once -but never again!

Kat:

Mat 23:13  "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

Are the ministers and preachers and priests of today's churches any different? I think not. You have a person/sheep who begins to think about living a more righteous life and wants to get closer to God they will look for a church/shepard. Now once they get under the sway of one of these 'Shepards,' do/can they get closer to God? We have come to see that when you get beyond the very most basic understanding, that Christ is the Son of God, that the church has no depth of understanding of truth, none. We have been there among them and can bare witness to this, I had my questions that I put to ministers and Matt. 23 holds true. If you go to a minister of one of the churches with a tiny bit of light that you may be seeing, they will try to snuff it out and keep to their manmade doctrines.

They (ministers, preachers, priests) put themselves in positions of authority/leaders and because they have memorized Bible verses and can quote them around their doctrines, the people flock to them. We realize that this is the way it is ordained to be, they are the blind leaders of the blind, in this church age.

Mat 15:10  When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, "Hear and understand:
v. 11  Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man."
v. 12  Then His disciples came and said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?"
v. 13  But He answered and said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.
v. 14  Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch."

Those who think of themselves as having authority it teaching truth to those that come to them, yet pull them into the ditch along with themselves, will have much more to answer to in the judgment.

Mat 23:14  Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

CEO:
Sarah

You are insightful and well written.  Two other references to the jews being LAST.  Rmans 11 describes the broken branch (jews) being grafted in after other believers;  Hebrews 11:40 'they shall not be made perfect apart from us (belevers), 'us' obviously being before 'they'.

The first shall be last?

ASKSEEKNOCK

Charles O

sarahfromcolorado:
Thanks Charles.   :)

The first being last totaly makes sense to me now. And Romans 11 is an amazing chapter. I could never understand it, along with other Scriptures, and they "bothered" me until Ray and people like him started showing all these truths about the nature and duration of judgment.

I think I heard him say once that just this one chapter in Romans disproves both freewill and everlasting judgment.

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