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Author Topic: Can we win souls for Christ?  (Read 5268 times)

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indianabob

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Re: Can we win souls for Christ?
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2012, 01:26:29 AM »

Well said my friend,
And often we need only go so far as our own family.

It is not about how many people we reach; it is about how we share love wherever we have opportunity.
bob
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Duane

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Re: Can we win souls for Christ?
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2012, 08:16:11 PM »

Kat--thank you for your answer about the Holy Spirit being Jesus and Jesus being the Comforter (Holy Spirit). 
While that, in itself breaks up the Trinity concept, now that we know that Jesus OR the spirit of Jesus is the Holy Spirit, should we say "it" or "he"?  (I wrote a post about this and NO ONE brought this up (?).) 
I believe that I read that the spirit of the Father (GOD) is also in the BREATH of the spirit, or Holy Spirit. SO the Holy Spirit is made up OF the COMBINED spirits of Jesus and God the FATHER. (and seeing that God the Father can do NOTHING except thru Jesus--the holy spirit HAD TO await Jesus's death and resurrection-yes?)

Side point--Jesus WASconceived of the holy spirit so Jesus WAS part of His OWN conception!--because you can't SPLIT the holy spirit into --this portion is God the Father; and, this portion remaining-- is Jesus.  (mind-blowing!)
WHICH also means that when the holy spirit is interceding to the Father in our behalf--is it REALLY Jesus (in the form of the Holy Spirit) talking to His Father on our behalf?
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Kat

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Re: Can we win souls for Christ?
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2012, 10:20:23 PM »


Hi Duane,

Eph 4:6  one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in you all.

This is so easy to get confused, but I want to bring out one very important point, the Father is above all else. Jesus Christ came from the Father and all things were given to Christ from the Father.

John 16:28  I came forth from the Father, and have come into the world.

Luke 10:22  All things are delivered to Me by My Father...

You stated, "God the Father can do NOTHING except thru Jesus." Actually it quite the other way around.

John 5:19  Then Jesus answered and said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, The Son can do nothing of Himself but what He sees the Father do. For whatever things He does, these also the Son does likewise.
v. 20  For the Father loves the Son and shows Him all the things that He Himself does...

John 8:28  Then Jesus said to them, When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you shall know that I AM, and that I do nothing of Myself, but as My Father has taught Me, I speak these things.
v. 29  And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things which please Him.

Also here is an email from Ray.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4995.0.html -----------

The "Spirit" is the possession of God the Father--it is "The Spirit OF God."  However, God has given His Son Jesus Christ this SAME spirit. God has shared ALL with His Son: "ALL power in heaven and earth is given Me" (Matt. 28:18).  Jesus takes of the Spirit His Father has given Him and gives it to US (John 16:15).  The "Comforter" (the "parakletos) IS JESUS.  "And if any man sin, we have an Advocate [Gk: 'parakletos] with the Father, JESUS CHRIST the righteous" (I John 2:1). Jesus Christ IS, the Lord of the Old Testament; the Lord of the New Testament, the Comforter (Parakletos), which is the promised Holy Spirit, which comes to us through JESUS CHRIST, and so "The Lord is that SPIRIT."
     
    God be with you,
    Ray
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Kat

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Re: Can we win souls for Christ?
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2012, 01:29:21 AM »


Hi Abednego,

To me the position of being at the 'right hand' of the Father is a figure of speach.

Mark 16:19  Then indeed, after speaking to them, the Lord was taken up into Heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Acts 7:55  But being full of the Holy Spirit, looking up intently into Heaven, he saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
v. 56  And he said, Behold, I see Heaven opened and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God.

Col 3:1  If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God.

I saw a comment in the Barnes commentary that struck me as very much the way I understand this.
 
 We are not to suppose that God has hands, or that Jesus sits in any particular direction from God. This phrase is taken from the manner of speaking among men, and means that he was exalted to honor and power in the heavens. It was esteemed the place of the highest honor to be seated at the right hand of a prince. So, to be seated at the right hand of God, means that Jesus is exalted to the highest honor of the universe.

Eph 1:20-21  which He (the Father) worked in Christ in raising Him from the dead, and He seated Him at His right hand in the heavenlies, far above all principality and authority and power and dominion, and every name being named, not only in this world, but also in the coming age.

There is no greater position of exaltation, there is only one that can hold this place of honor to this Most High God, that goes to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Php 2:9-11  Therefore God has highly exalted Him, and has given Him a name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly ones, and of earthly ones, and of ones under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Duane

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Re: Can we win souls for Christ?
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2012, 02:08:20 AM »

Kat--thank you AGAIN!  I really had it mixed up!!  Thank you also for the threads--I learn so much!

Part b of my inquiry:
--Jesus WAS conceived of the holy spirit so Jesus WAS part of His OWN conception!--because you can't SPLIT the holy spirit into --this portion is God the Father; and, this portion remaining-- is Jesus.  (mind-blowing!)
WHICH also means that when the holy spirit is interceding to the Father in our behalf--is it REALLY Jesus (in the form of the Holy Spirit) talking to His Father on our behalf?
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indianabob

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Re: Can we win souls for Christ?
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2012, 10:05:36 AM »

Kat--thank you AGAIN!  I really had it mixed up!!  Thank you also for the threads--I learn so much!

Part b of my inquiry:
--Jesus WAS conceived of the holy spirit so Jesus WAS part of His OWN conception!--because you can't SPLIT the holy spirit into --this portion is God the Father; and, this portion remaining-- is Jesus.  (mind-blowing!)
WHICH also means that when the holy spirit is interceding to the Father in our behalf--is it REALLY Jesus (in the form of the Holy Spirit) talking to His Father on our behalf?

Duane,
I think this idea, understanding, concept needs a little more work including my following comments.

We don't know what Creator God is or how He/She/It exists or functions in the spiritual realm.
We don't know that Creator God is a person in the same sense that we refer to one another as persons.
We don't know that the Holy Spirit of the Trinity doctrine is a person either, but that is the way many have chosen to try to illustrate our relationship with the holy spirit.

The O. T. uses many schemes/analogies/metaphors to try to describe how we should think about God, but all fall short of a scientific or dictionary explanation which is what most folks want.
To state, "the holy "ruach" or "pneuma" using the English word SPIRIT can be simplified to saying that God is "spirit" or God is something invisible that we cannot understand or even describe. We know God is there because otherwise nothing would exist or be sustained in existence. God is just beyond description for any human other than Lord Jesus who has actually experienced God's reality; as far as we know.

In Acts 16:17-34 Paul explains to the religious of Athens about their "unknown god" and comes quite close to defining the power on high that we cannot see, touch, hear etc. This also helps to demonstrate how difficult it is for humans to describe the true God in human terms.

When the Bible speaks of the comforter interceding for us with God, it just means that God is always listening and that God cares and understands, EVEN though God is so great and so far above us, he can and does understand our frame, our painful existence. Yes, God knows what it is like to feel pain. God knows what it is like to carry a baby in a mother's womb and to be stretched out of shape in the often painful delivery process. God created the nervous system that allows the pain sensation that protects our bodies from further injury. All our bodily systems have been pre-tested for effectiveness; in the mind of God. Lord Jesus did not, after his physical existence have to explain to Father God what it was like to be human/physical; God already knew and suffered with Lord Jesus. In like manner God and now Lord Jesus know and suffer with each of us in our trials.

So what we are left with is that the holy spirit is the (invisible something) that we cannot explain that has the ability to exert authority and power in the physical realm. It is the something that Creator God uses to accomplish "His" works. It is the word or spoken thoughts of Creator God. It is God making things happen according to God's will and purpose. It is God desiring that Mary the mother of Lord Jesus conceive in her womb a male child and willing it to happen. So the holy spirit is God at work. AND now by divine appointment it is also Lord Jesus the Christ at work in our daily lives.

In the U.S. we have a saying about a government OF the people, BY the people, FOR the people.
The holy spirit may be similar in that it is OF God, BY God and FOR God's benefit and pleasure.

I realize that my poor attempt at explanation is lacking in many ways, but I hope to generate a little more thought and introspection, contemplation of the idea.

Indiana Bob
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