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Troubles about Paul now...real apostle or not?
John from Kentucky:
Satan is boring. He does the same things over and over. Satan likes to cast doubts about the Word of God.
That's what he did with Eve. He told her God had lied.
God's word is truth. The scriptures are the written word of God and tells us the truth about God and His ways. Paul's writings are scripture inspired by God. They are clear in the middle of the New Testament.
Not only this thread, but other recent threads on the Forum have tried the same thing. They consist of paragraph after paragraph of nutty, false, lies about the scriptures. These threads also mention "love".
Does Satan think he can fool the Spirit of God?
http://bible-truths.com/kiss.htm This is a link where Ray discusses the wolves among us.
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: eggi on April 05, 2012, 10:54:12 AM ---
--- Quote from: Revilonivek on April 05, 2012, 09:54:59 AM ---Yes. All scriptures are given by inspiration. God is teaching us something. Pay attention to the scriptures. It is telling us something abt characters and what to loook for. Throughout the bible we learn abt different kinds of people and their characters. There are good and bad people throught old testament. Why not the new testament too? Jesus did say there will be many false prophets and apostles rising up after he leaves. What if Paul is an example of one? Showing us how this example can decieve many? I don't know. Something just did not feel right with Paul. That's all.
--- End quote ---
Denise, I'm sorry you feel that way.
This is written by Peter the Apostle:
2 Peter 3:14-16: Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Since Peter, in a letter where he discusses FALSE TEACHERS, obviously approves of Paul as a BELOVED BROTHER, then I think it is clear that Paul is not "an example of a false prophet". Or should we suggest that Peter is also false? What about the rest of the apostles?
What exactly is it that just doesn't feel right with Paul?
--- End quote ---
That's my dear brother, is the nail in the coffin. Thank you for that piece of scripture. Paul was indeed a beloved brother, a vessel of mercy and honor chosen by our Lord and Saviour.
Edit: In the article I linked of "Do james and paul contradict?" Ray makes some very strong points and blows out water some of this nonsense about paul not being a real apostle and heretic. People just need to go read it.
indianabob:
Dear Folks,
It might be helpful for those wondering about Paul to consider the following:
It is my understanding that Jesus said plainly that he came to the Jews, the circumcision and not to any others. Jesus did not send his 12 apostles to the gentiles, in fact he forbid them to go to the gentiles and they didn't for ten or twenty years.
It was years after Lord Jesus' ascension that he called and sent Saul/Paul specifically to the gentiles.
All the while the 12 were keeping the law of the Jews in their personal lives.
So apparently, Jesus wanted it that way UNTIL the time was right to send a specially prepared apostle to the gentiles. Why?
1 Cor 1:22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Paul makes it quite clear that he was not taught by any man or any apostle or other believer, but that he was taught directly by Lord Jesus while living in Arabia for three years.
It seems that Jesus knew that a different approach would be needed for these divergent groups.
It was and still is difficult for even a believer to give up serving the law and put faith in God's grace.
eggi:
--- Quote from: indianabob on April 05, 2012, 02:09:54 PM ---Dear Folks,
It might be helpful for those wondering about Paul to consider the following:
It is my understanding that Jesus said plainly that he came to the Jews, the circumcision and not to any others. Jesus did not send his 12 apostles to the gentiles, in fact he forbid them to go to the gentiles and they didn't for ten or twenty years.
It was years after Lord Jesus' ascension that he called and sent Saul/Paul specifically to the gentiles.
All the while the 12 were keeping the law of the Jews in their personal lives.
So apparently, Jesus wanted it that way UNTIL the time was right to send a specially prepared apostle to the gentiles. Why?
1 Cor 1:22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Paul makes it quite clear that he was not taught by any man or any apostle or other believer, but that he was taught directly by Lord Jesus while living in Arabia for three years.
It seems that Jesus knew that a different approach would be needed for these divergent groups.
It was and still is difficult for even a believer to give up serving the law and put faith in God's grace.
--- End quote ---
Excellent point, Bob!
Revilonivek:
I don't want us all to have to feel defensive on this. It's how we learn from eachother.
I only shared my concerns is all. It doesn't mean I think i'm right. It is just concerns.
1. We used to perceive our pastors or leaders our beloved brothers of God at one point. We believed them. Maybe the Apostles did too. They must have experienced people like that, just like we did. We were deceived at first. Why would you say the Apostles weren't decieved at all at first? Jesus warned that there will be many coming after he leaves. Those who teach that Jesus is christ. Paul may be a beloved brother at first.
2. Would you trust those who come to you and say They received their gospel from no one else but God and was taught by God only. didn't learn it from anywhere or anybody. Not even from the Apostles. Of course Naturally, you would be apprehensive of that. Why would it be any different back then during Apostles' time.
3. Why did he steal from other churches to serve his own church?
4. Why did James and other Jews doubt Paul's sincerity at one point?
5. Why did he lie about himself to the high priest and the governor? why did he deny himself and say he is a pharisee when faced a high priest and lie again to the governor for his own protection?
6. Why did Paul confess to Timothy how he felt, that all the churches in Asia left him? Why did Jesus praise the church of Epheus that they tried those who claim to be an apostle but turned out to be an false apostle?
7. We used to look up to our leaders as they were righteous and all knowing but we learned the truth about them eventually later... What if Paul is an example of what we deal with? Leaders of today believed in their truths. Like Ray said, Apostles learned as they lived their life- they spiritually grew and got to know the truth. They weren't already there by the time Jesus ascended. They learned as time went. granted God used paul to spread the gospel to the gentiles. So did God use many leaders of today to help you and me come to the knowledge of this great truth of the real good news.. it was necessary....
The stories about Paul- it seems to reflect the preachers/ leaders of today. There are many that are sincere in what they believe in... but they do have flaws.
I have an open mind- If Ray says Paul is one of the good guys. Then great. It just doesn't address my concerns about Paul listed above. If you can- I'm all ears.
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