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Troubles about Paul now...real apostle or not?
Dave in Tenn:
If you're going to make a list of accusations against Paul, then please present the evidence from Scripture. I'm prepared to refute some of what Gene mentioned, but I'm not a bible-encyclopedia. If you're all ears, then give a guy a break and at least point out from scripture where you get these.
Craig:
Or at least a couple of them. Denise you are like a flag in the wind. I like that you are a searcher but you gotta realize a person can search and read the internet and find a good hypothesis on about any subject, I even found a pretty convincing site that claimed the moon was made of cheese.
Eventually you will need to pick your side, flying in the wind will give you no ground to stand on. The forum is not here to defend against the thousands of sites on the internet that do nothing but detract from the Word of God. They can be very convincing, so it really comes down to faith and what side you want to be on.
If you believe the original scriptures are inspired by God, then that has to be your roadmap or rulebook. So if you find questions, such as the ones you give about Paul and want to ask them, then you at least need to give scripture to back it up, and remember the golden rule of study; you need at least two witnesses to defend that scripture.
Please don't use a shotgun approach, it is not fruitful and honestly it is irritating :). Just start with one or two questions, defend what you see with scripture and give the members a chance to see if your point is valid. If you cannot defend your points with scripture, but perhaps maybe others can defend theirs, you must be ready to change your mind or agree to disagree and move on. I don't care what you believe, even the moon being made of cheese, but we can't continually bring in teachings or opinions of others outside the forum, that is not the purpose.
Craig
lilitalienboi16:
My thiuughts exactly! We are told that we will know them by their fruit. Rev you seem to be throwing around a lot of so called "rotten fruit" that apparently paul left laying all over the place, but I just haven't seen it in the scriptures so please do share these passages of rotten fruit with us.
newgene87:
Okay. Thanks to everyone for the comments. I'm not the one for confrontation: "a wise WILL hear, and will increase learning..." (Pro 1:5), so trust me, I am listening (actually reading) and taking everything in. To correct some speculation this is not a question on the Scriptures or the Word of God. Someone stated if you take away Paul you take away the New Testament...... what a slap in the face for the Gospels, James, Peter, John (the pillars of the Gospel); the ones who actually SAW and Walked with Jesus during His ministry. Matthews Gospel alone has truths throughout it and all of Jesus parables actually cover Life as we should live, in His name. So, no, Paul is Not THAT big. And that's my concern as well, Paul has been elevated to Jesus Himself - and that should not be the case. His writings have taken importance over Jesuss own words, the Torah, and the Prophets. But I'm taking all the insight in and came HERE for comments cause believe it or not, I LOVE this forum and everyone's insight and comments: and there is a lot of wisdom here. So instead of googling, or finding a pastor, why not the bible-truths forum :-D. People who seek the truth. So thanks for the insight. thanks to everyone for the words. For myself- I'll just uphold Jesus's words as chief in my learning and the scriptures. Im still a little shaken on Paul, from his mysterious name change from Saul (within a verse), his excessive talk of himself ("He that speaks of himself seeks his own glory...." John 7:17-18). And Paul spoke of himself a lot. Oh well, 1 Corinthians 13, Romans 8, Galatians 5, and Ephesians 2 are still GOLDEN writings so I'll just leave it to God and be knowledgeable in the Word. Thanks family :).
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: newgene87 on April 05, 2012, 07:52:44 PM ---Okay. Thanks to everyone for the comments. I'm not the one for confrontation: "a wise WILL hear, and will increase learning..." (Pro 1:5), so trust me, I am listening (actually reading) and taking everything in. To correct some speculation this is not a question on the Scriptures or the Word of God. Someone stated if you take away Paul you take away the New Testament...... what a slap in the face for the Gospels, James, Peter, John (the pillars of the Gospel); the ones who actually SAW and Walked with Jesus during His ministry. Matthews Gospel alone has truths throughout it and all of Jesus parables actually cover Life as we should live, in His name. So, no, Paul is Not THAT big. And that's my concern as well, Paul has been elevated to Jesus Himself - and that should not be the case. His writings have taken importance over Jesuss own words, the Torah, and the Prophets. But I'm taking all the insight in and came HERE for comments cause believe it or not, I LOVE this forum and everyone's insight and comments: and there is a lot of wisdom here. So instead of googling, or finding a pastor, why not the bible-truths forum :-D. People who seek the truth. So thanks for the insight. thanks to everyone for the words. For myself- I'll just uphold Jesus's words as chief in my learning and the scriptures. Im still a little shaken on Paul, from his mysterious name change from Saul (within a verse), his excessive talk of himself ("He that speaks of himself seeks his own glory...." John 7:17-18). And Paul spoke of himself a lot. Oh well, 1 Corinthians 13, Romans 8, Galatians 5, and Ephesians 2 are still GOLDEN writings so I'll just leave it to God and be knowledgeable in the Word. Thanks family :).
--- End quote ---
What you do not understand is that Paul's words are Jesus' words.
Jesus is the Word of God. All the scriptures from Genesis through Revelation are Jesus' words. The various human writers of the scriptures did so under the direct inspiration of God. There is no such thing as free will. The human writers wrote what God wanted them to write.
The scriptures are God's biography; they tell us about God. There are no true contradictions in the scriptures. They teach us the truths of God. You can only understand the scriptures by the Spirit of God. Paul's words are the truths of God along with the rest of the scriptures. The scriptures are a seamless whole.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6452.0.html
P.S. newgene, if you are sincerely interested in understanding, read the bible study from Ray in the above link. A little ways down from the top is a section on how God does not lie, followed by a section on how God's word does not lie. The entire study gives insight into the unity and simplicity of God's word.
If you are meant to understand, you will. If not, we'll catch you later.
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