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In OR OUT?
Samson:
--- Quote from: thetruth on April 09, 2012, 02:01:57 PM ---Hey Dave and Octoberose
Thanks for your replies!I had a friend ask me to pose this question to the forum and see what kind of responses I would get?So i hope others will reply as well.I find it interesting that here at Bt and others who know of Ray real well but are not on the forum.That some seem to have a belief a conviction that they are part of the elect.While others seem to have doubts?Ray seems to me to have a conviction that he is.Someone else I know sees it the same way .But again others not so much.Is it that Ray seems to have conviction as well as many others that because God has opened their eyes to these truths they see this as a confirmation or proof?Really would like the Bt -brass to comment on this...Kat, Deb,Gina,john Kentucky,Samson,Marques ,,and the rest of the awesome bunch!I have no Alternative motive why I ask this.Just would like to get some thoughts.Why is it your believe and see your elect OR why is it your unsure?Paul did say 2-tim-"'on that day I will put on my Crown of Righteousness".must of known something?Thanks to everyone for your time and thoughts if you choose to share.And again thanks Dave and Octoberose!
--- End quote ---
Hi The Truth,
My response is primarily going to be based on your original Post, I didn't get the impression that your original Post was referring to whether or not an individual is one of God's Elect or one chosen out of the " Many Called."
Dave from Tenn Post basically shows much insight, because there are many many Denominations of Christendom with varying interpretations that constitute their particular formula for getting "Saved," going to Heaven, etc and what exactly needs to be " done by Us ( Their Myth of belief in Free Moral agency) erroneously as part of their formula.
I go a little further than Dave from Tenn, meaning: even each particular Denomination doesn't agree or believe within itself on what method leads to Salvation or getting to Heaven. This may not be fully true in regards to the Extremely Legalistic Denominations, because a large degree of conformity and uniformity exists among those Members.
The Pattern that's noticed by these Denominations in general is believing that " being chosen" to going to Heaven or being part of " The Kingdom," is synonymous with being "Saved."
They believe that the Scriptures that refer to being debarred from entering God's Kingdom or being a part of God's Kingdom based on one's actions and acceptance of Christ in an individual's Short Lifespan(70-80 years) is synonymous with eventually being saved in general.
Scriptures such as the following are referring to God's chosen Elect Only, at least "Only" in this present Lifetime, ie- 1Cor.6:9-11( Those who practice such things will not inherit God's Kingdom); Ephesians. 5:3-5 (has no inheritance in God's Kingdom); Galatians. 5:19-21(practicing works of the flesh, no inheritance in God's Kingdom); Romans. 1:28-32( Those with a reprobate mind are deserving of Death), note- obviously those mentioned here in Romans are practicers of the things mentioned there.
With the above considered as to what they believe to constitute the exact formula for being saved or going to Heaven, that's a significant flaw with much CONFUSION(Babylon=Confusion) meaning that they will tell you many people receive some form of "Endless Punishment," but they can't give you a precise formula to avoid going there or a precise formula to be "Saved," as a result of " What you do or don't do," in this Lifetime. This all breeds Inconsistency, Double Standards, Hypocrisy, a lack of thought & Love and most importantly CONFUSION.
And what are We to do or how are We to react to Religious CONFUSION, get out of it or get out of Her, because Her sins have amassed all the way to the Heavenly Realm.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Βαβυλών
Babulōn
bab-oo-lone'
Of Hebrew origin [H894]; Babylon, the capital of Chaldaea (literally or figuratively as a type of tyranny): - Babylon.
The above derived from Babel equaling "Confusion." Read Below !
H894
בּבל
bâbel
baw-bel'
From H1101; confusion; Babel (that is, Babylon), including Babylonia and the Babylonian empire: - Babel, Babylon.
Yes, there's great confusion with all these Denominations, so how could they, as a group or individually explain to you or me where We are going or not going after death when they are confused themselves with no specific formula as to how to get there.
Just how I see it, Read Ray's How hard is it in getting Saved, Parts 1 & 2.
Kind Regards, Samson.
Duane:
In NOT KNOWING a few crucial elements necessary for a definitive solution--I handle it this way:
My prayer:
"Lord, I WANT to/STRIVE to be in the "first resurrection" so I can return to earth WITH you on a "white horse with white robes" at the next resurrection. I KNOW that I am NOT worthy without FIRST going through the Lake Of Fire and being purified--
IF I have "any say" in the matter--I PREFER to experience my "Lake of Fire" NOW--while I'm on the earth rather than LATER.
SO--bring whatever hardship or circumstances that entails-- into my life NOW that I may attain the goal. I KNOW that I am "asking for it" BUT I KNOW that YOU will give me strength and wisdom to handle each and every UNPLEASANT EXPERIENCE YOU deem NECESSARY to achieve my "purification process".
LASTLY--please help me CONSCIOUSLY and DELIBERATELY live my life as LOVINGLY, PURELY and HONESTLY as I can that I may emulate JESUS!" In Jesus's name, AMEN
NOW--it's ALL in Your HANDS!
cjwood:
i like your post duane. just wanted to say it.
claudia
GaryK:
--- Quote from: thetruth on April 08, 2012, 07:36:49 AM ---But my point is.......How do they reconcile the many Scriptures such as"No one will pluck them out of my hand" and "If you confess me before man I will confess you before my Father which is in heaven."
So today many will go and get Saved as they know it..only to end up unsaved if they dont go to church enough to meet the quota of the church and be deemed a back slider?Any thoughts?
--- End quote ---
The notion of free-will is amazingly strong and will over-ride any scriptural truth. In a conversation once with a church leader I suggested to him that Paul did not have, in any way, power of himself to refuse his new charge and continue on his journey to persecute the church. The idea was purely heretical and he told me as much. Shunned I was.
Point being, how do they ‘reconcile’?....doesn’t happen, or if it does it’s done by the notion of man has free-will and casts out the scriptural truth of ‘no one plucks’. The power of man over God is stunning, but true, according to church teaching. They don’t give it a thought, not deeply anyway………..and neither did I back when. Most of us didn’t and that’s why we’re overjoyed to learn the truth.
The quota you mention, that of church attendance, is also a wavy line to toe since not all church members consistently attend ALL services on a regular-habitual-constant-unwavering basis, so, I’m not sure how ‘back-sliding’ can be measured by church attendance attaining the great goal of saving of the soul. Must be some-kinda-chalk board to keep up with that.
My thoughts.
gk
Joel:
My most recent criticism is "You don't GO to Church, You are not Doing any works!"
I think most of the Church world believe that they have free will, and are free moral agents able to add and subtract theirselves at will.
Also with a view that God is in a terrible battle with Satan, and it is a hit and miss struggle that Christians have to fight in order for God to be able to win in the end. And that because God is Love, that he is some how also kind of weak.
I can see that a lot of denominations believe what they believe, and don't want to rock the boat by learning anything else outside of what they accept to be the Truth.
Joel
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