Why there is no rapture

[Gina]

You're just getting that, I-bob?    

[John from Kentucky]

Here are some comments from Ray on this subject with scriptural support.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,14128.msg124600.html#msg124600


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7560.0.html

[Gina]

This is comforting and exciting!

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7560.0.html
Ray wrote:

Apparently God's Servants will be able to physically manifest themselves so that they can be SEEN:

Isa 30:20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall SEE thy teachers:

And on other occasions they will NOT be seen:

Isa 30:21 And thine ears shall HEAR a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

Thanks, JFK

[doug]

Here are some comments from Ray on this subject with scriptural support.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,14128.msg124600.html#msg124600


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7560.0.html

Yeah John... Thanks for these two links from Ray's email teaching.

I agree with Gina... it is exciting to know how we can interact as spiritual beings like that!

[Joel]

I completely agree with Ray's paper on the secret rapture, Don't see anything secret about Jesus when he comes again.
The scriptures in Isaiah that Kat refered to, do symbolize the peace during the Lord's rule on earth. However does that make that prophecy only symbolic?

The prophets prophesied many things that were also very literal.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

I know a group that were at one time Jesus only. They spiritualized Jesus to the point that he was not actually born flesh, and bone.

Joel

[Gina]

I completely agree with Ray's paper on the secret rapture, Don't see anything secret about Jesus when he comes again.
The scriptures in Isaiah that Kat refered to, do symbolize the peace during the Lord's rule on earth. However does that make that prophecy only symbolic?

The prophets prophesied many things that were also very literal.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

I know a group that were at one time Jesus only. They spiritualized Jesus to the point that he was not actually born flesh, and bone.

Joel

I don't know whether those verses are speaking of the time when Jesus sets up his reign on the earth in the hereafter or not.  But I do believe it's clearly speaking to the fact that there is coming a day when God's people will not be harmed by those would have otherwise persecuted them or been their enemies. 

Don't some of us here and now know, and/or live closely with, work and/or play alongside those who don't believe these truths and who would have otherwise been considered our "enemies," much like a snake or a cobra?  And are we harmed by anything they believe?  No.

Listen, Jesus called the pharisees snakes.  Were they literally snakes or did they just act like snakes?  He also called them liars and fools because they were.

I agree, yes, some things are literal and some things are symbolic.

Thanks, Joel.  I'm not of the camp that believes Jesus was a figment of someone's imagination.

[Gina]

Footnote: Jesus was born flesh, and BLOOD and bone.  But because He poured out His blood, He was resurrected flesh and bone.

[indianabob]

Footnote: Jesus was born flesh, and BLOOD and bone.  But because He poured out His blood, He was resurrected flesh and bone.

Uh Gina my dear, wasn't Jesus resurrected Flesh and Bone and Spirit?

If life is in the blood, wouldn't there have to be a different life source?

Just asking. Indianabob

[Gina]

Bob, yes, Jesus was resurrected back to life with flesh and bone BY the Spirit.   

Rom 8:11  But if the SPIRIT of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also bring to life your mortal bodies BY his Spirit that dwells in you.

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

Acts 2:24 But God raised Him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.

Acts 2:32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.



And scripture doesn't say that "life" is in the blood.  It says "the soul is in the blood."

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11733.msg101438.html#msg101438

[Joel]

Its interesting that the phrase " You are my own flesh and blood" said by many that I have heard over the years is not what the Bible says.  The phrase " flesh and bone" is however used many times.
Gen. 2:23, 29:14
Judges 9:2
2nd Samuel 5:1, 19:12-13
1st Chronicles 11:1
Of course no one is soul of your soul.

Joel

[John from Kentucky]

Actually Jesus was raised into a spiritual body.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5535.msg44438.html#msg44438

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3213.0.html  Ray's humor in this one.   

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6244.0.html

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1199.0.html

[Gina]

He was resurrected with a spiritual body which could manifest in a physical body.  That's what I said! 

I stand corrected.

Ray said it best:

Dear Reader:
    There are sooooo many important things to understand in Scripture that I absolutely just marvel at many of the questions I am asked. I just don't see the relevance of such questions.

So, with that, I'm out of this discussion....

[Kat]

Hi Gina,

He was resurrected with a spiritual body which could manifest in a physical body.

Yes that's how I see it, so I looked up some Scriputre to help with this. When Jesus appeared as "flesh and bones" it was for the sake of the physical people He wanted to see Him and prove He was resurrected.

Luke 24:37  But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit.
v. 38  And he said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts?
v. 39  See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." 

Another thing is He appeared as flesh and bone because His blood had already been poured out on the cross.

Mark 14:24  And He said to them, This is My blood of the New Covenant, which is poured out for many.

Acts 20:28  Therefore take heed to yourselves, and to all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to feed the church of God which He has purchased with His own blood.

It was JESUS THE MAN, Who shed His blood, and that is why, when He appeared in a flesh form to His apostles, He was only "flesh and bone," as He had SHED HIS BLOOD.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=280.0

So Christ does appear to His disiciples as "flesh and bone," so they could see Him. But Christ was raised to glory as a "life giving Spirit" to rule in His kingdom.

1Co 15:50  I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

1Pe 1:21  those believing in God through Him, He who raised Him up from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope might be in God.

1Co 15:44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
v. 45  Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.

1Co 15:49  Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.

2Pe 1:11  For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Gina]

Hey,, Kat

Thank you.  I agree.  It would be ridiculous to believe that Jesus was raised back to a physical body with holes in it.   But does a Spirit have flesh and bone?  Well... yeah.  Sometimes, but only for the sake of those who are yet carnal.  I'm definitely yet carnal.

The thing I will store up as treasure from this entire discussion is so comforting to me:


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7560.0.html
Ray wrote:

Apparently God's Servants will be able to physically manifest themselves so that they can be SEEN:

Isa 30:20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall SEE thy teachers:

And on other occasions they will NOT be seen:

Isa 30:21 And thine ears shall HEAR a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

Ray is a teacher.  How cool is that?  Even in this thread I've heard his words behind me -- "this is the way, walk ye in it," when he said: 

Dear Reader:
    There are sooooo many important things to understand in Scripture that I absolutely just marvel at many of the questions I am asked. I just don't see the relevance of such questions.

I heard that!  haha!