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Why there is no rapture
Gina:
I'm so glad someone brought up this topic. Thank you.
I've struggled with understanding the secret rapture paper as well.
For me, it's not that I take issue with the secret rapture theory. It sounds totally hokey to me.
What I constantly wonder about is this...
The Coming of the Lord
Heb. 11 or 12 (or something, sorry!) 13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.
14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
15 According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.
:)
Okay. We're not talking about literal clouds and literal air here, are we? Because I thought clouds related to this:
Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses (not, "witnesses IN the clouds, but cloud OF witnesses, see?), let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
And I thought "air" related to this:
Eph 2
1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
"That was so much help, Gina. I know exactly what you mean.. Yup. Sure."
But does anyone see what I'm trying to say? The words clouds and air are used symbolically in those verses from Hebrews and Ephesians... See? Anyone? haha??
doug:
The rapture theory is popularized by the subsequent need for a place to go in the false doctrines of pre, mid and post tribulation ideas for the return of Christ. Like John stated, there is nobody going to heaven after the first resurrection. That's why the churches have devised a place - heaven for the believers - and hell or annihilation for those "left behind" with a hundred subliminal points of view.
But here is how I understand The Day of the Lord and the Blessed Hope of the church/elect, "looking for the blessed hope, and the appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ." Titus 2:13.
Christ is not going to make a swooping pass by the earth to snatch off a few people to take them to heaven, but there will be a reunion with Christ by those of us alive at the time and also a reunion with the true believers who have gone before us. The reunion will be a uniting of believers who remain alive with the believers who died along with Christ. The saints don't rise to "run away" to heaven and leave all others "left behind".
The rapture says Christ takes his saints to heaven to spare them from the "Great Tribulation". But spirit beings don't need to be rescued from anything that the physical realm might inflict. We (the elect of God) can't be hurt by physical events. It therefore makes no sense to think that Christ must take us to heaven to protect us from the judgments on the earth. We in fact will be teaching those on the earth.
The saints rise to meet Christ in the air while on His way to the earth to defeat evil and to establish the Kingdom of God here. The Greek term translated "to meet" in I Thess 4:17 from the Tyndale Commentary says that it is an expression of a technical term "for the official welcome of a newly arrived dignitary". Notice that it pertains to a newly arrival, not to one who is merely passing through. In no way does it convey that Christ only enters the atmosphere and them reverses course, as He "snatches" believers away to heaven.
Another commentary notes that "when a king enters his city the loyal go forth to meet him". Jesus' loyal saints, the resurrected saints, rise from the earth to meet Him as He comes to govern the world, and they escort Him back to the earth - at this time - The Day of The Lord.
Zechariah confirms this: "And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, from east to west, making a very large valley; half of the mountain shall move toward the north and half of it toward the south... Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with you." Zech 14:4,5.
In conclusion, I'll summarize what I Thess 4:16,17 actually says:
Christ's return is proclaimed by an angel's trumpet blast; it is clearly not a secret matter (secret rapture).
The fact that some believers had died doesn't mean they would be left out; they will be resurrected to join Christ as He returns to establish the new Kingdom Age (Kingdom of God on earth).
Living believers will also be changed to spirit to join those resurrected from the dead.
All elect will form a welcoming party that rises to meet Christ and escort him back to earth, absolutely nothing is said or implied about going to heaven.
His return is the prophesied second coming, not a clandestine snatch and grab of the true believer saints, the elect of God. The resurrected saints who meet Christ will immediately begin to serve with Him in the Kingdom of God on earth (Revelation 20:6).
There is no rapture. There is a resurrection of the second coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
doug:
Hey Gene, nice to meet you!
I also have pondered and have imagined the concept you proposed "billions and billions and billions of people on earth... will they fit?"
Will physical life continue after this event (the first resurrection)? The bible explains that spirit beings do not get married or have children. "They neither marry or given in marriage". Luke 20:35. But what about those who are not changed into spirit when Jesus returns? As physical human beings, are they capable of having children as they learn God's way of life? That is a question I have wondered. Is it "life as usual" for them? (except of course the judgment process they will all endure).
For instance, considering what you said Gene - When I got my driver's license in the early '60's, there were approximately 3 billion people on this planet. Life seemed like a breeze then. I could just jump in my car, there was no traffic congestion, and I could just "fool around" (with my "girl" ;D) and it was a great and happy past time. Seemingly there were no crowds and going shopping was pleasant. In other words... you could "spread your wings" and "fart" without no one close by to notice!
And now days... there are approximately 7 billion people on this planet. I now sometimes feel like a rat in a cage! I have to seek the wilderness to keep my sanity! What's going to happen at the resurrection and beyond? Let's say that there were at least another 7 billion people from Adam to the Lord's coming... and that is probably a very conservative number. How are they all going to fit on this earth comfortably? Will Greenland, Antarctica, Siberia and other desolate places become more habitable? (don't give me that example where all the people now living could have adequate space in an area the size of Texas... that doesn't seem feasible to me).
Well, maybe someone else has wrestled with those same ideas. But, then again, if we were to know, God would have told us!
santgem:
"New heaven and a New Earth"
If it is new then it is not like the old. LOL! :D
Will not God double or triple or making the new earth so huge that all inhabitants could fit in?
Who knows? ;D
longhorn:
My Head just exploded.
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