> General Discussions
Time and Eternity
mickiel:
I just watched Rays vedios on time and eternity, they were stunning. Just raw truth teaching, in my view, I had never heard him before. Very refreshing to hear unadulterated teaching.
On the image of God, I have come to see Gods image as being " Consciousness." I mean thats where I am with it now. The image of God is consciousness, and all humans have that. I doubt that Gods image means anything physical, and consciousness is " The Spirit in man", in my view of scripture. Consciousness is a Spirit, simular to the breath of life God blew into man, but I am not sure they are the same thing; the breath of life, and the Spirit in man( consciousness). Animals are alive, the breath of life, but I do not believe they are conscious ( or have Gods image.)
The bible calls Adam the first man, although he was not the first human created. I think it means Adam was the first human God gave consciousness , or that was created in his image. Which would suggest to me that primordal man, or humans before Adam, were not created in Gods image, or didnot have consciousness as we do; which I know sounds weird, but would be incredible.
I'm still kind of thinking and studying on this premiss; but I think its possible.
Kat:
Hi mickiel,
Welcome to the forum :)
The topic of spirit/breath and consciousness is a familiar subject here on the forum. Here is a Scripture that put together the breath and spirit together and you can see how it applies to animals also.
Gen 7:22 ALL in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, of all that was on the dry land, died.
Now when a person has their eyes opened by God He gives them another Spirit, an earnest of the Holy Spirit to go with their human spirit so that we can understand spiritual matters.
2Co 1:22 And He has sealed us and having given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Here are a few emails that go more into this.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,118.0.html ------------------
Man is made of TWO components--body and spirit. God never put a soul into Adam. The soul of man is not a component, but rather the product of two combined components, namely: body and spirit. God formed man's body out of the ground. He then breathed into this body the breath of life (spirit), and the MAN, not some separate component, but the man became a "LIVING SOUL." The soul is not the living soul, but rather the man is the living soul. There is no soul without the body of man. Understood? God is not a trinity and neither is man a trinity.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,655.0.html -------------------
You are not paying attention to my writings. The consciousness is not in the body, and it is not in the spirit. The consciousness of man is in his soul, and his soul is resultant outcome of our spirit being united with a body. God breathed the breath and spirit of life into the man formed from the dust of the ground, and the man then BECAME a living soul. He BECAME conscious of his own being. At death we are no longer conscious of our being or our death. Our spirit must be reunited with a new body in resurrection before we will regain the soul and consciousness that we had before we died.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1594.0.html ----------------
Every person (and animal) has a "spirit." There is no life without spirit. At death OUR spirit return to our God Who gave it to us. Spirit does not die. But, spirit has no consciencousness of its own. It must be united with a body. That is why there is coming a Resurrection of the DEAD. Adam's body had the spirit of God breathed into it and then Adam became a LIVING SOUL. God's Holy Spirit is His Spirit of Holiness which imparts spiritual knowledge and spiritual character to those who possess it. The wicked and unbelievers have a spirit that keeps them alive, but they have no spiritual perception of spiritual truths because they do not possess the Holy Spirit of God living in us through Jesus Christ our Lord.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=1675.0 ----------------------------
Yes, there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without "spirit." Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46; I Cor. 2:11; etc.). There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man's spirit is combined with a body. God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of "soul." We are said to have new "spiritual" bodies, not that we are made "spirits."
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=4176.0 ---------------------------
ALL men (and animals) have a spirit. This spirit gives life to the body and produces soul (feelings, thinking, emotions, etc.). But God dwells in our hearts and minds by way of His HOLY Spirit, which is a different spirit.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2619.0.html -----------------
The Spirit of Christ is eternal, and when we have the Spirit of Christ we have eternal life in us. But....BUT,
we have only the "earnest" of that spirit, and it will not keep our physical bodies from dying. But when we have the earnest of God's spirit, it is proof that there is more to come: "In Whom you also trusted after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that you believed, you were SEALED WITH THAT HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE. Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL [not now; not yet, but later] the redemption of the purchased POSSESSION, unto the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:13-14).
And that takes place at the resurrection of the saints at the last trump. One more point: although we are promised "eonian" life, nonethless, the spirit that gives us "immortality," IS ETERNAL.
God be with you,
Ray
mickiel:
--- Quote from: Kat on June 03, 2012, 07:32:40 PM ---
Hi mickiel,
Welcome to the forum :)
The topic of spirit/breath and consciousness is a familiar subject here on the forum. Here is a Scripture that put together the breath and spirit together and you can see how it applies to animals also.
Gen 7:22 ALL in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, of all that was on the dry land, died.
Now when a person has their eyes opened by God He gives them another Spirit, an earnest of the Holy Spirit to go with their human spirit so that we can understand spiritual matters.
2Co 1:22 And He has sealed us and having given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
--- End quote ---
Greetings Kat, I am happy to be here; thank you.
I see how animals have a Spirit of life, and humans. I think I understand the difference between Gods Holy Spirit dwelling inside a human, and a human just having a Spirit of life, who does not have Gods Spirit of conversion or annointing, or whatever we can label a chosen believer. I was just saying that I see the spirit that all humans have, the spirit of life, as being in Gods image, or being conscious. One must ask then, are animals created in the image of God? I think there is a distinction between animals and humans, that being consciousness.
The human body combined with the breath of life, I think you were saying that produces consciousness. I tend to think consciousness is a spirit unto itself, and the body just carrys it around. So it seems to me there can be 3 spirits; the spirit of life, the spirit that is consciousness itself, and the Holy Spirit of God, whenever he decides to give that to the human. I mean the scriptures mentions a lot of Spirits, even suggest that God has " Seven" himself, in Revelations 4:5; which is an incredible thing, if it is literally true.
I certainly believe that only Gods Spirit can reveal Spiritual things in their depth, yet I also believe we can only be conscious of, those things we are conscious of.
I know that Gods Spirit is in this place and was with Ray, I certainly sense that; one reason being, I am learning already and have gotten more understanding, and you don't get that so soon where the Spirit of God is not or has not been there.
Anyhow I am still learning, and I enjoy that benefit. I have rarely visted a place that believes in the Salvation of all and rejects the teachings of this eternal hell fire pain amphlifier; that is so refreshing; Jesus was not punished in order that humanity would be punished forever. He was not beaten, in order to leave room for humans to be beaten forever.
I am happy to be here and look forward to the refreshing. I hold developing views in many areas, but I agree with so many of Rays views, and have thought on simular lines for years. I have walked alone in my belief and had many years of argueing and debate, and I grow tired of that, and look to settle down with those who hold to the beliefs that I do myself. Doesn't have to be exactly like mine, but you know how that is, I have longed to be with those who see the glory of the Salvation of all.
And the Peace that brings.
Gina:
Welcome, Mikiel. :)
Funny how this topic shifted from Time and Eternity to the different types of spirits and their functions. That is quite a leap! lol (How's that for movement, Moises? My brain's doing back-flips. ;D)
We'll have two topics going under the same thread if we keep going, Mikiel, and that tends to throw people off.
Mind if I start another topic on that subject?
:)
Dave in Tenn:
Both religion and philosophy have failed us. They have people so confused, they don't even know who THEY are--much less God. I feel no need to divide myself into multiple bits and pieces. God is creating (not 'has created') mankind into his image. He 'breathed' spirit into man (and continues to) and man became a living soul (still happening). Common theology says man has an immortal soul. Scriptural truth is that man IS a living soul.
Religion and the traditions of men don't understand spirit either. Spirit is what God says it is, and it makes little difference what our 'conceptions' are. It's a huge subject and can't be covered in a forum post.
Animals (at least higher animals) have thoughts, feelings, make choices, dream, etc. Yet they are not being created in the image of God. We human souls are. God both has and IS Spirit. He gives what he has to whoever He chooses whenever He chooses--most notably to His Son.
Here's a list of short emails that talk about what people are from a Scriptural perspective: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11605.0.html
This is one of my favorite passages of Scripture to refer to when talking about 'spirit':
1Co 2:11-15 For who among men knows the things of a man, except the spirit of a man within him? So also no one has known the things of God except the Spirit of God. But we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit from God, so that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God. Which things we also speak, not in words taught in human wisdom, but in Words taught of the Holy Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things. But a natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he is not able to know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But the spiritual one discerns all things, but he is discerned by no one.
Spirit of (a) man. Spirit of God. Spirit of the World. Spirit from God. Words taught of the Holy Spirit. Spiritual things. Comparing spiritual things with spiritual things. Things of the Spirit of God. Things spiritually discerned. Spiritual ones. And that ain't anywhere near the end of it. :D Start putting it ALL together from all of Scripture, and leave behind the oogy-boogy "caspar-the-friendly-ghostisms' of religion, and you come closer to understanding "spirit". It's all quite practical from my chair.
It's good to meet you.
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