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[Gina]

November 2008 Bible Study Time and Eternity
http://bible-truths.com/video/study113008.wmv

Hey everybody.

This is my favorite study that Ray did, next to the letters to Hagee and Kennedy and a thousand other things on the site. lol    And the reason why is, he taught me the difference between time and timeless/ageless.  I was taught (in the church--not by Ray) to believe that there is no time in eternity.  But without time, there is no movement.  When things are in motion, you have "time."  But when there is no time, there's no motion, no movement and nothing changes.  And I thought about what that really meant and I got scared.  Because think of the implication.  No time, no movement.  We don't do a n y t h i n g.  Gee, how exciting.  And that's what "Pleasures on every side" means?

I remember writing Chris R, way back in 2005/6 and I was mad (I could tell him anything - he was my good friend and confidant).  I said, What is this esoteric mumbo jumbo?!  If there is no time in eternity, what will we be doing for all eternity, twiddling our thumbs?!!  (Well, no, because even twiddling our thumbs means there would be movement and therefore there would be time, but there is no time in eternity according to the churched.)

Oh, God!  And just got to where I was like, So what if there isn't any hell! That kind of eternity (without any movement -- hence, we're not doing anything) is going to be as boring as hell !  LOL 

And I left the forum.  I was that angry.

Well, anyway, I don't know, but I get the feeling ChrisR must have written or spoken to Ray about what I said and lo and behold here is this study!

And I look at Ray speaking and he's just as annoyed about the whole issues as I was, but I couldn't figure it out, but he did! 

And I was like, YEAHHHH!!!  I get to do something in eternity!! Yay!!  (I hate being bored.)

Thank God he gave Ray the brains and the interest to break down the words time and less.  Ray made it so simple, yet because we're taught in church to never question the leaders, er uhhh... God, I never questioned it.

It's like, um, helloooo?  THAT'S WHY WE FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT?!  THAT'S MY REWARD?!!  Gee thanksssss.

Thank God for Ray.  He's like a warrior, to me -- fighting these huge, major battles, freeing me (all of us) up.  So cool.  I mean, I was really scared and angry about that subject. 

But now, I'm glad because movement means I'll be able to do something for eternity and not frozen like Han Solo in Star Wars; hence, not bored out of my mind.  I'm amazed that God heard and answered that major prayer of mine.  God is so good to me.

Anyway, that's all.   

[adiamondintheson]

Do you have a link for that particular one you're speaking of....
Thanks... and I'm glad it was such a blessing for you
Connie

[Gina]

Hey, Connie

Try the link at the top of my post (it's a wmv file).

If that doesn't work click the link below.  It's under the "Ray's Videos" thread entitled "November 2008 Bible Study Time and Eternity"

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8227.0.html

It's been transcribed, too.

[adiamondintheson]

DUH.... How could I not see that... ?!?!?!?!
(smiles)...
Thanks, Gina

[Gina]

No worries!  Been there, still doing that.  hehe

My pleasure, Connie.

[Revilonivek]

Where do I find the link to the transcrpition  for time and eternity video?  I can't find it? Please help?

[Rene]

Where do I find the link to the transcrpition  for time and eternity video?  I can't find it? Please help?

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,10538.0.html

[Gina]

You're very welcome. 

You, I know, will thoroughly enjoy this!  You will be enthralled with what passion he expresses how inane (couldn't be a better word to describe this devilish doctrine of demonic, delusional doo-doo  ) this ridiculous idea could be.  He's so right on. 

But you'll have to back up the thingy a lot in some places if you're anything like me, because it's quite the "web" the theologians have weaved and he's had to untangle it all.  Not an easy task and, as with everything else, it thrills me to see him do it.

Enjoy!

[adiamondintheson]

Den & I just went through this video today.... and I'm sure we heard it before.. but I swear, you could listen 50 times, and maybe glean a little bit more each time.  It's unbelievable to think of the MIND that God gave that man!!!!  I don't know of another individual who thinks like L Ray... You better not be half asleep... cause it'll fly right over you.

And Kat...
We would like to say a special thank you for all the time and effort that you put into transcribing all of those videos and tapes.  It had to be very time consuming... and you have broken out comments and scriptures so well... that we don't have to wonder where Rays comments start or end in relation to his reading or quoting other peoples writings.  Excellent job there little lady.  I trust God will reward all of you who worked and stood by Ray so diligently through all of what God had assigned for him to do!!  Somehow I don't think He's finished with any of you yet.  It's AWESOME!!!!

Even though Ray is gone... we are so blessed by all of the work that has been documented.  He didn't just read and know this stuff for himself... but made sure it got written and recorded, and you all have helped him from there to get it out to all of us. 

God bless you all and us as we continue to study and learn more of His will and His ways...
Connie

[Gina]

Den & I just went through this video today.... and I'm sure we heard it before.. but I swear, you could listen 50 times, and maybe glean a little bit more each time.  It's unbelievable to think of the MIND that God gave that man!!!!  I don't know of another individual who thinks like L Ray... You better not be half asleep... cause it'll fly right over you.

And Kat...
We would like to say a special thank you for all the time and effort that you put into transcribing all of those videos and tapes.  It had to be very time consuming... and you have broken out comments and scriptures so well... that we don't have to wonder where Rays comments start or end in relation to his reading or quoting other peoples writings.  Excellent job there little lady.  I trust God will reward all of you who worked and stood by Ray so diligently through all of what God had assigned for him to do!!  Somehow I don't think He's finished with any of you yet.  It's AWESOME!!!!

Even though Ray is gone... we are so blessed by all of the work that has been documented.  He didn't just read and know this stuff for himself... but made sure it got written and recorded, and you all have helped him from there to get it out to all of us. 

God bless you all and us as we continue to study and learn more of His will and His ways...
Connie

That's so right.

[whyisthatso]

The physical creation is dependent on time, but time itself is not dependent on the creation. The physical universe is in contstant motion, from the smallest electron to the largest galaxy.  The vast expanse of the cosmos is such that it defies time, as we know it, and the only way that we humans will ever see it is to become something apart from the physical.   There is a "time" that exist apart from the physical creation, in the spiritual realm. But time there is not like it is here, it is altogether something different. The Father was not exagerating when He said that a day was like a thousand years, and a thousand years like a day with Him.

[doug]

The physical creation is dependent on time, but time itself is not dependent on the creation. The physical universe is in contstant motion, from the smallest electron to the largest galaxy.  The vast expanse of the cosmos is such that it defies time, as we know it, and the only way that we humans will ever see it is to become something apart from the physical.   There is a "time" that exist apart from the physical creation, in the spiritual realm. But time there is not like it is here, it is altogether something different. The Father was not exagerating when He said that a day was like a thousand years, and a thousand years like a day with Him.

I believe you are correct, whyisthatso

Most bibles only translate what we say as "time" in only one meaning.... time.  Whereas God's time is Kairos (time) and He has created the universe in Chronos (time) for a timekeeper to all mankind.

[Gina]

Welcome Whyisthatso!

I'm not fighting the good fight just so I can see the vast expanse of the cosmos and how it all operates.  I'll be bored to tears in a few eons for sure!  :-D

I can't speak for everyone here but I'm aiming to:


1.  Let go of the vast expanse of my own ego.  (No, really.)


2.  Believe, obey, be purified by and know God, and love my neighbor as myself; and


3.  Reign with Christ to undo the works that the devil has done. 

Strange as it sounds to some (like my friend Gail who doesn't believe as we do), I imagine and look forward to a time when people like Hitler are freed from the law of sin and death and begin to feel truly sorry for their sins (like Judas felt sorry for his and we for ours) and go on to be healed and obey and worship God.

Anyway, that's what I want to see.  But that's me.

Glad you joined us.

[whyisthatso]

Thanks Gina, for the warm welcome. And may I be so bold as to say that I didnt join you, but He brought me here.  Of course we all seek after His righteousness in order to be in His kingdom. And that is the purpose for which He has called us. His "kingdom" ( king's domain or dominion )  speaks of His government, and above all that the Father does, He rules, He governs. And as His children that is what we will do, beginning here on earth.  Some might say that they have no inclination or desire to rule or govern over anything, but think about it for a minute. Even now in this flesh we do so, as a father, a mother, an employee, etc.  And if nothing else, we even have the limited ability to govern ourselves to a point.   No matter what we do, we cannot get around it.  Its all about government, always has been and always will be.   But in seeking first His Kingdom and His righteousness, we should always remember something so as not to go astray,  " the greatest among you will be servant of all "

[Gina]

Thanks Gina, for the warm welcome. And may I be so bold as to say that I didnt join you, but He brought me here.  Of course we all seek after His righteousness in order to be in His kingdom. And that is the purpose for which He has called us. His "kingdom" ( king's domain or dominion )  speaks of His government, and above all that the Father does, He rules, He governs. And as His children that is what we will do, beginning here on earth.  Some might say that they have no inclination or desire to rule or govern over anything, but think about it for a minute. Even now in this flesh we do so, as a father, a mother, an employee, etc.  And if nothing else, we even have the limited ability to govern ourselves to a point.   No matter what we do, we cannot get around it.  Its all about government, always has been and always will be.   But in seeking first His Kingdom and His righteousness, we should always remember something so as not to go astray,  " the greatest among you will be servant of all "

    After you, sir, after you....   

[whyisthatso]

Sorry Gina, I did not mean to be overbearing in any way. Please forgive me.

[Gina]

No problem.  It's just that Ray's body is barely cold. 

I'm going to go listen to an audio of Ray's.............

See ya.

[patmokgoko]

While still at it, did either Hagee or Kennedy bother to write back to Ray after that Ray had refutted them?

[doug]

While still at it, did either Hagee or Kennedy bother to write back to Ray after that Ray had refutted them?

I believe this link will answer your question patmokgoko:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11612.0.html

[Dave in Tenn]

My favorite bit.  The Scriptures don't just say that His Government shall never end, but that the INCREASE of His Government shall never end.  INCREASE is CHANGE.  Nothing static, and everything only increasingly wonderful.    

"Now one of my favorite verses, because this verse says very little and yet it says a lot.  We could meditate for some time on this.

Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting (aonian) Father, The Prince of Peace.
v. 7  Of the increase of [His] government and peace [there shall be] no end…

Dr. Strong gives a very brief definition there, it just says that word mean increase.  But he uses the English word so let’s see what the definition is, because this word is not contradictory like these time words are all contradicting.

American Heritage
Increase - to become greater or larger, to multiply, reproduce, to make greater or larger.  The act or process of increasing.  The amount or rate by which something is increased.
Synonyms: increase, expand, enlarge, extend, augment, multiply, these verbs to mean to make or become greater or larger, sometimes suggesting steady growth.  To extend, to lengthen in space or time or to broaden in range. 

All of these lengthen, multiply, increasing, growing when will that stop?  J. Preston Eby, at the end of the eons and all these other turkeys, at the end of the eons when eternity takes over.  What do the Scriptures say?  Never.  “No end.”

Now it would be nice if we had some twenty or thirty specifics about this, but we don’t.  But think about what it is saying, increase, maturing, growing, expanding, becoming bigger, larger, greater in quality, quantity.  Isn’t that a marvelous teaching!  All of these Christians reject it.  We are going to be like Han Solo frozen in a block of metal, for all eternity.  There will be no changing, nothing will happen.  That’s what they said is the definition of eternity, nothing happens.  Unbelievable!   

Let’s see what Webster has to say about that.
Increase - progressively greater as in size; to make greater, enlarge, augment, multiply; mean to make something greater, increased, used transitively implies progressive growth in size amount or intensity; addition or enlargement in size, extent or quantity; something that is added to an original stock; augmentation, growth, etc.

All of this growth and getting bigger and better and grander, when does it end?  Never.  We are told these things only happen in time and there will be no time.  What a damnable doctrine.  How marvelous is God’s word."