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[wigglytug]

hold on did bill wiese in his book say that after he was attacked by the demons that his wounds just healed and the demons kept tormenting him

[Gina]

Don't take this the wrong way, Wigglytug, but you sound to me like you're no older than nine or ten years old, tops, and if so, you're too young for this forum.

Schools out and Summer's here.  Surely, you have one or two friends you can play with?

[wigglytug]

Don't take this the wrong way, Wigglytug, but you sound to me like you're no older than nine or ten years old, tops, and if so, you're too young for this forum.

Schools out and Summer's here.  Surely, you have one or two friends you can play with?

 no no its just that i think i think too deeply into this story...i think deeply into just about everythin. and i still have school right now

[Gina]

I see. 

Most of us here have read the things that Bill Wiese says.  We're just like, Zzzzzzzzz ... whateverrrr.  ha, ha

We're so over his lies. 

But you're struggling with his lies and that's almost as startling to me as the bold-faced lies he sells. 

Oops, I mean tells. 

I really feel so sorry for you and anyone who believes that junk, honey.   

I have a friend in her late 50's who believes what he says, too.  And I'm sure I know why.   She absolutely hates her enemies and tells me any time she hears of some horrible crime that someone's committed how she looks forward with delight to the day when they're tortured in hell in flames.  But to look at her and talk to her otherwise, you'd think she was the sweetest, gentlest woman in the whole wide world.  Yep.  And she's not evil herself.  I know she would never torture anyone like that, because she couldn't stomach it, but it's alright with her if God does it.

SICK!

But you don't hate your enemies like that.  I can tell.  You don't look forward to the day when they're tormented.   

Well, I'm just gonna pray for you, sweetie. 

Ciao for now.

[Dave in Tenn]

In the grand scheme of things, Bill Weisse wrote his book so Ray Smith could write his rebuttal.  That's what I think, anyway.

The 'wise' in Christendom could (and some did) criticize the book without touching the underlying message.  That's not what Ray did.  In the course of exposing those who contradict, he preached sound doctrine.  What the others did was mostly criticize the book for making their beloved 'Hell' seem so foolish. 

Bill's book was a best-seller, despite it's flaws.  It sold a boat-load.  MANY are called, few are chosen.  It was as perfect a spring-board and back-drop for the Gospel as the letters to Hagee and Kennedy, though both of those men are a bit 'smarter' than Bill.  Could be Bill will have an easier time of it repenting.       

[Gina]

In the grand scheme of things, Bill Weisse wrote his book so Ray Smith could write his rebuttal.  That's what I think, anyway.

The 'wise' in Christendom could (and some did) criticize the book without touching the underlying message.  That's not what Ray did.  In the course of exposing those who contradict, he preached sound doctrine.  What the others did was mostly criticize the book for making their beloved 'Hell' seem so foolish. 

Bill's book was a best-seller, despite it's flaws.  It sold a boat-load.  MANY are called, few are chosen.  It was as perfect a spring-board and back-drop for the Gospel as the letters to Hagee and Kennedy, though both of those men are a bit 'smarter' than Bill.  Could be Bill will have an easier time of it repenting.

That was beautifully stated.  They never touched the underlying message because Bill's message is basically the same as their message.  To them, Jesus wouldn't be the Christ should He actually manage to save the world.  They're full of ... well, nonsense.

That Bill may having an easier time of repenting may be true. 
But this is the verse that comes to my mind:

Matt. 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child [fit for destruction] than yourselves.

That's the kind of offspring they produced and we will know them by their fruit.  Doesn't look at all like the fruit of the Spirit, does it, Wigglytug?  Sure doesn't.

[wigglytug]

thanks you guys its just that i found this whole mess of this stuff by accident and its enough to drive people insane! At anyrate i think most of those stuff are probably exaggerations anyways

[Gina]

You're welcome, hon.  I'm glad you're here Wiggly because I just learned something new myself:


(I know it's hard to believe but Bill Wiese is basically telling you and everyone who will stop to listen that the penalty for sin is eternal LIFE in the flames.  That's not what the bible says!  The bibles says that the penalty for sin is DEATH.  It never says the penalty for sin is Eternal LIFE.  Look up the scriptures for yourself and see we're not lying to you.) 

Ray replies to an email re IF HELL ISN'T REAL. 

Okay, Cheryl, I will try to answer your question which was: QUESTION IF HELL ISN'T REAL THEN WHY DID GOD SEND HIS SON TO SAVE US FROM DEATH AND OUR SINS?

First, your question is incoherent.  That is, it doesn't make sense, and it contradicts itself.  What if we turn your question around and ask:  "If hell IS real, then why did God send His Son to save us from death and our sins?"  You see, whether there is or is not a hell has absolutely NOTHING to do with why Jesus died for our sins.  Jesus Christ "died for our sins," we are told in Scripture.

We are NOWHERE told that Jesus died for our sins to SAVE US FROM HELL.  Where is there such a Scripture? There is none.  When will we stop parroting pagan Christian doctrines and start believing the Bible?  The world of Christendom would have us believe that "The wages of sin is LIFE in an eternal HELL OF FIRE."

Where do the Scriptures teach such nonsense?  Now then, will you believe the Scriptures?  If I show you what the Scriptures really say about the wages of sin, will you believe it?

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin IS DEATH ; but the gift of God is  ETERNAL LIFE  through Jesus Christ our Lord.  There it is.  What is the "WAGES" of sin?  There is no "gift" for sin, there is only "WAGES" for sin.  So what IS the "wages" of sin, is it "eternal LIFE?"  or "DEATH?"  Well we just read it, the "wages of sin is DEATH"--not eternal LIFE  in hell.  Where does one get "eternal LIFE?"  Why it is "THE GIFT OF God...through Jesus Christ our Lord."

There it is, but will you believe it?  Yes, Christ died for our sins, but not to save us from eternal "LIFE" (in some Egyptian pagan terrorist hellhole of eternal pain and suffering in fire). "Eternal LIFE" is a gift, not a punishment for sin.

So there is one great and Biblical answer to your question. There are many many more, but I don't have to time to go through them, and if one will not believe one absolute Biblical proof that there is no eternal hell of torture, then that person will not believe a dozen Biblical proofs. Study my paper. There are dozens and dozens of Scriptural answers as to why there is no such thing as a eternal torture chamber for most of the human race of God's children. May God grant to you the wisdom to see these simple and profound truths of the Bible.

God be with you,

Ray

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13793.msg121620.html#new


Read that at your leisure.  There's no hurry--just take all the time you need.  And in the meantime, remember, Jesus is the Prince of PEACE.  Do you feel peaceful after reading what Bill says?

Talk later.

[cheekie3]

Gina -

What Ray sent you is absolutely wonderful.

George.