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Lost children
Kat:
Hi again octoberose,
The church hold to the idea that you only have till death to receive salvation and the sooner the better for you. They use this verse to back up what they believe.
2Co 6:2 (For He says, "In an acceptable time I heard you, and in a day of salvation, I helped you;" Behold, now is the accepted time. Behold, now is the day of salvation.)
So they think that this is saying that this time now, in your lifetime, is the only chance you have to get saved. But it just so happens that is not the best translation for that verse.
Young's Literal
2Co 6:2 for He saith, `In an acceptable time I did hear thee, and in a day of salvation I did help thee, lo, now is a well-accepted time; lo, now, a day of salvation,'
Concordant Literal
2Co 6:2 For He is saying, "In a season acceptable I reply to you, And in a day of salvation I help you.Lo! Now is a most acceptable era! Lo! Now is a day of salvation!"
If you will notice that word "the" is not in these translations, there is an "a," and that makes a big difference. Here Paul is speaking to the brethren and is telling them that this is "a day of salvation" for the few that are called in this age. This age is for gaining an experience of good and evil in our lives, the next age is for judgment and salvation for the great majority of mankind.
So I don't know if that will help you with talking to your friends, but I thought it might be a help to you.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Gina:
--- Quote from: octoberose on June 04, 2012, 12:18:41 PM ---I know some of you have children who don't believe as we believe about God and His Sovereignty, but maybe as I do, you have a child who is hostile toward God in every way. A child who has every gift except faith. A child that breaks your heart. So, I'm asking, what do you do? We wait on God to do as He will, but what do you do with this heartache? What do you do when you know death will be a welcome rest from this terrible loss, but in the mean time you have a life that to live for years and years watching that child live this sad life? I pray and pray for God to intervene, but He is making my son more hostile to Him. How do God's people feel and behave and work with broken hearts? That's what I'm asking.
--- End quote ---
This is what you do -- don't let it consume you, Octoberose. That's the best advice I ever got from anyone and it came from Ray. I trust the man, what can I say.
God has mercy on whomever He wills and He hardens others--it was God's mercy that my daughters turned out so well . And they aren't believers like me, and they're not perfect but who is? They're not evil and they care about others. And they're intelligent. I'm very, very fortunate.
Are you saying your son is completely evil without regard for life? Does he go around torturing and killing others? What's he doing that makes you say he's "hostile" to God? You're not giving us much information. It's really hard to know what to say. How old is he? What makes you think you and your husband are to blame? Are you able to recognize your parenting mistakes? ( I mean, you're parenting style, for lack of a better phrase.) Are you able to look at your son and say, "Wow, I didn't handle/say that so well. Let me back up and try that one again...." You know what I'm saying? Can you talk to your son about anything at all?
Gina:
Hi, again!
You also wanted to know:
--- Quote ---why God would want to harden hearts and minds. I know He does,
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure I understand the question. Do you mean that your friends are the ones who are asking why God wants to do those things? That's a dreadful thought. Don't you remember how Ray taught that we need that backdrop of evil to show up good?
I know there have been times when I thought He actually wants to do these things. But I can't accept that.
Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, says the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn you, turn you from your evil ways; for why will you die, O house of Israel?
Ezekiel 18:32 Say unto them, As I live, says the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn you, turn you from your evil ways; for why will you die, O house of Israel?
And John the Baptist and Jesus came on the scene saying "REPENT."
Jesus said: O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
It's the same thing, isn't it.
So there we go. All those scriptures to prove beyond a doubt that God doesn't WANT people to be hostile to Him, but to turn from their evil ways and be saved. But how to BELIEVE it?! That's the problem!! LOL How? And it doesn't help at all to read it in the King James because it's written in such archaic language. Beautiful language! But foreign to my ears. And I need someone who can speak my language. I know English. And that's okay! Nothing's too hard for God.
But I want to run in the other direction away from God upon hearing "He wants to harden some people's hearts." As if He's some sadist. That's just as evil as someone who tortures someone else for ever for no redeeming purpose w h a t s o e v e r.
I'd much rather believe that what God wants is to SAVE everyone but He has to get our attention first (because we have to believe that God exists and is a rewarder of all those who earnestly seek Him.... did I say that right?).
We automatically find fault with God and how He operates, not because we WANT to but because we see no other way!
And, we never stop to think to ourselves, How else is He (that's God. Remember: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CREATOR OF THE WHOLE WORLD and THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE--God) going to get our attention? Cause things to happen that get our attention, like: "Oh my God, I didn't just see that happen--did I? Hey, did you see what I just saw??* Because God's that unfathomable. But He's also everywhere. You said, "we're not God." No, but we're supposed to have him living in our hearts, aren't we? What is He? Sleeping? lol
It's going to take miracle(s) to believe that He really is operating all for the good. And He will make a way for us to go through the evils we encounter. Not directed around them, or taken out of them. But through them. Like we must pass through fire. God is like a refining, purifying fire.
He doesn't want to do these things. He has a lot of pleasure He wants to do too!
Can you go for some pleasure? I can. :) But it's going to be a while. But we look in faith to those things we hear believing, and not with what we can see with our physical eyes, not with our own carnal minds.
It's tough and it's ONLY to get our attention and put our eyes on HIM. \
Glory to God in the Highest but it doesn't end there:
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, so that we may be also glorified together.
See? You have something in common with Jesus. And that's a good thing.
Makes sense to me!
octoberose:
He's 20, Gina. He's turned away from God because he doubts His existance- he has left the love he had as a child. The world and it's 'wisdom' has seeped into what he thinks and believes. He's very typical of his generation in many ways. He's very bright, very well read, and that just makes it worse. He does not feel toward women what a young man should feel. He loves us, has been scared to death at the thought of losing his family ( but we have not rejected him). Most people really like him.
Gina:
Yep, know a woman who's going through the same thing with one of her daughters. Yep. ;D
But it's hard to not like this girl. It just is. And I thank God for that, because that means I don't hate her. Right? Right!
It's God's kindness that leads to repentance. Give it time and don't let it or what other people think consume you. It's okay to love your child.
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