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Adam the " First Man?"

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Dave in Tenn:
Mickiel, I was 20+ years "in the desert".  First time I met any of our folks in person, I barely knew how to behave in polite company, much less among "people of God".  I don't really have any friends IRL as I spent 13 years travelling alone on the road.  So I definately feel your pain.

Consider this:  There is no scripture (that I know of, not being a bible-scholar) that says "the image of God is conciousness."  There are more than one scriptures that say "Jesus is the image of God".  This is not only said 'about Him', it is 'said' by Him in John 14.

To me, John 14 and the rest of Scripture are deep enough to 'think on'.  Do you understand all of what He is saying?  I don't.

The same John starts his epistle with this:

1Jn 1:1  That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jn 1:2  (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
1Jn 1:3  That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Now, if you can reconcile what you think to Scripture, then do so.  I don't have to understand it, and you don't have to explain it.  If you can't reconcile it, you run the risk of creating "an idol of the heart".  These don't lead TO Truth, but block access to it and/or lead us away from it.

When I first crashed into BT, my 'conception' of God grew so rapidly that it almost got away from me.  "God" became so huge that I felt like my voyage of discovery was almost pointless.  Well, God IS more than the mind can fathom, but that is not how He has presented His own Self.  He hasn't left us gazing into the heavens or into our navels.  I don't know if this mind-blowing is/was happening to you.  I'm just hoping you can see that we don't need to create doctrines.  We've got more than enough to keep everybody from the simplest to the most inspired busy.

Do good. 

   
   

Gina:
p.s.  Mikiel, what you say about not wanting to learn from  just one man got me thinking, so I'm chiming back in.  I'm sure you're not suggesting that we're "followers" of Ray.  That's okay if you are. 

As Ray said, sticks and stones...  (I love that.)

I don't believe that we're learning from one man.  Ray didn't learn from just one man, either; he learned from many men.  How about all the men who were inspired by God to write the scriptures?  How about all the men and women who translated them into the English language,  not to mention all those many men and women who provide the study aids?

When you break it down that way, we're not learning from just one man, but many -- relatively speaking, that is. 

I used to go here and there and everywhere.  I've done all that.  But the funny thing is, I keep coming back here.  (I'm not a genius by any stretch, but I know I'm not completely unaware of what's being revealed to me by God through other people and my interactions and experiences with them.)

You didn't come here by accident.  But if you want to leave, that's understandable.  I did that lots of times over the past 10 years, and it got very confusing.  And I don't mean to be rude, I promise, but you sound like me about eight years ago.  (I tell you that as a friend, because a friend will tell you when you have Spinach in your teeth.)

If you have to go, that's okay.  Nobody's going to try and pull you back in.  We certainly don't need your money to keep this site in operation.  Please, I beg you, don't do what I've done and leave under the false assumption that you would be learning from just one man (meaning Ray); you wouldn't be.   I can't learn in a vacuum, Mikiel. 

If you don't mind me making a small unsolicited suggestion:  If you desire that others consider what you have to say and listen to you (and I can tell you do), maybe ask God to reveal to you why He led you here.

As Ray would say, God be with you.  (Love that.)

Revilonivek:
Maybe it's just a story moses thought of to explain what happened 3500 years before his time. Its quite a stretch. Since he got his "story" from his ancestors. Orally not written. U know stories get less and less reliable as time goes by. Have u hheard of eye witnesses accounts of accidents they witnessed. Their storoes are all different and the details gets fuzzy the longer u wait to get details of what happened..Jesus was here over 2000 years. Imagine someone telling u what happened 3500 years ago from his time orally with no written accounts. I would say the story is approximate. Not exact to the minute detail.for me tthe Scripture in genesis creation story is indeed misleading. Even with mistranslations that ray has found already. I would say they wrote something to help explain the unknown. Science has already proved that there were different human species. Maybe Adam is the first of a specific human species that God works with but it doesn't explain the othrr species God already created. Its ttrue that in the old testament that the Hebrew people are heavily racist toward other races prob because they weren't of the line of Adam maybe? According to the bible. The Hebrew people werr the only ones that led a long life up to almost 1000 years back then while other races during tjeir ttime didn't. So who knows? Maybe the line of Adam is who God wants to work with but it doesn't explain the rest of other races and how they came to suffer along with us. I mean genesis explains how the line of Adam came to be and sinned. But it doesny explain how tthe other races sinned and Gods hostility and racist behavior toward them. I mean every time The Hebrew people wins a war. They're percieved a hero but when others win. Herbrews look at them as non heroic people. This is typical behavior of people of different races. They just think their God is the right one. Hebrew's God in ot wants to wipe other races off the face of earth because theyre not Hebrew people or Gods people..sometimes we just need to take a stand back and consider that Adam 's line is not the first people that Genesis claims to havr made.

Gina:

--- Quote from: Revilonivek on June 04, 2012, 11:07:04 PM ---Maybe it's just a story moses thought of to explain what happened 3500 years before his time. Its quite a stretch. Since he got his "story" from his ancestors. Orally not written. U know stories get less and less reliable as time goes by. Have u hheard of eye witnesses accounts of accidents they witnessed. Their storoes are all different and the details gets fuzzy the longer u wait to get details of what happened..Jesus was here over 2000 years. Imagine someone telling u what happened 3500 years ago from his time orally with no written accounts. I would say the story is approximate. Not exact to the minute detail.for me tthe Scripture in genesis creation story is indeed misleading. Even with mistranslations that ray has found already. I would say they wrote something to help explain the unknown. Science has already proved that there were different human species. Maybe Adam is the first of a specific human species that God works with but it doesn't explain the othrr species God already created. Its ttrue that in the old testament that the Hebrew people are heavily racist toward other races prob because they weren't of the line of Adam maybe? According to the bible. The Hebrew people werr the only ones that led a long life up to almost 1000 years back then while other races during tjeir ttime didn't. So who knows? Maybe the line of Adam is who God wants to work with but it doesn't explain the rest of other races and how they came to suffer along with us. I mean genesis explains how the line of Adam came to be and sinned. But it doesny explain how tthe other races sinned and Gods hostility and racist behavior toward them. I mean every time The Hebrew people wins a war. They're percieved a hero but when others win. Herbrews look at them as non heroic people. This is typical behavior of people of different races. They just think their God is the right one. Hebrew's God in ot wants to wipe other races off the face of earth because theyre not Hebrew people or Gods people..sometimes we just need to take a stand back and consider that Adam 's line is not the first people that Genesis claims to havr made.

--- End quote ---

As Ray would have said:  Brilliant!  (love that, too! hehe)

I gotta get outta here before I start a fire....    ;D

Dave in Tenn:
And I reckon maybe that's enough.  Especially since Mickiel has already given his blessing, locking her up.

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