> General Discussions
Adam the " First Man?"
mickiel:
--- Quote from: Gina on June 04, 2012, 03:37:54 PM ---But how do we know that all animals everywhere have no knowledge, or aren't conscious, of God? Because of the way we see them behave? Sorry to say but I've known dogs that behaved more humanely in certain ways than some humans.
I agree it's much too presumptious to say that all animals everywhere aren't aware of God in the slightest. God's aware of them. Think of the sparrows. You know what I'm saying?
And I don't know that God is "consciousness."
Consciousness is being awake, to know something (anything), being aware. That's all that consciousness means.
God's certainly awake and aware, but to say God is "consciousness" begs the question: Was there ever a time when God was unaware? Unconscious? Sleeping?? What woke Him up?
That's probably silly. I just like picking on the newbies, I guess. hehe. You make me think, Mikiel -- that's for sure and that's become my favorite past-time.
Tah-tah! :)
--- End quote ---
Hi Gina,
I never stated that God was consciousness, I do believe however that the image of God is consciousness. I think when Genesis states in 1:26, " Then God said, Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness", well I think that means lets give Adam Consciousness, or the Spirit " In Man." Which I doubt very seriously that he put that same spirit in primordal man, or humans before Adam. Then he said " Let them " Rule" over fish, birds, cattle and over all the earth. And over the insects as well. In my view, Primordal humans didnot " Rule" over these things as we do now. In fact, some of the primordal animals were so big, they probally ruled over the humans back then; thats not far fetched to assume. I mean that makes sense to me. How are you going to rule over a dinosaur? Not without the weapons we have now.
I also do not believe animals are conscious of God, and I have never seen any evidence of that. I don't even view animals as being conscious, as we are conscious. One has to understand just what consciousness is; I quess thats another thread. There is no need for animals to be conscious, none that I know of. For example, here are some of the signs of consciousness; Religion, education, technology, government, festivals, sports, math, astrology, laws, transportation, language, interpitation of language, writting, spelling, the ability to see into the consciousness of another; and so on. Animals don't do these things. Oh there are freak examples of humans teaching and training certain animals to mimick these things, but they are not aware of consciously doing these things verbatum. Not in my view.
mickiel:
--- Quote from: doug on June 04, 2012, 03:25:22 PM ---Mickiel, Hey! Nice to meet you!
I have also been intrigued with this subject.
I believe that pre-adamites can indeed fit into the biblical scheme, verified with science and history. Here are some ideas to consider:
"it is not good that man should be alone: I will make him a helper comparable to him." Gen 2:18
That fact that God had to make Eve as a helper "comparable" to Adam implies that there were no women "comparable" to Adam, not that there were no women living at the time. The order of "kind after kind" had to be maintained. Possibly Adam could not "breed" ( I know, a crude term, but true) with another humanoid woman. A man and woman of the same kind or race are comparable.
"there was no man to till the ground" Gen 2:5. The literal translation to this is "there was no adam to till the ground". There were none of the adamic "kind" on earth before Adam was created,, but there were other humanoid "kinds".
Eve is called the "mother of all living" Gen 3:20 and Adam "the first man was of the earth". I Cor 15:45 & 47.
It is inferred that the verse which says Eve is called the mother of all living means she is the mother of all races. Then if we were to take this literally, then why can't we say that she is the mother of all things that breathe, i.e. all animals? All of these are "living" things. I believe it should mean nothing more than that Eve was the mother of all the Adamic race and not the animal humanoids that pre-existed.
The first man, Adam, is of the earth, earthy, and the second man, Christ, is the Lord. Now, if the "first" is meaning universally, then so is the word "second" which means Christ was the second human being on earth. We both know that that certainly isn't so! Those Corinthian verses are comparing Adam and Christ spiritually and not to imply that there were no other prior humanoids (pick your own term - caveman or whatever).
When God cursed and cast out Cain, God placed a "mark" on Cain, "lest any finding him should kill him." I believe Gods statement indicates other people existing at the time of Adam, Eve and Cain.
I have heard of other defenses arguing that no others could have possibly existed before Adam & Eve and then coming to this scripture, their arguments then seem to me distorted. One theory being that because of the longevity of Adam & Eve they bore many other sons and daughters and that sons married sisters, cousins etc. down the line and that it wasn't wrong or sinful because the incest law hadn't been established as of yet by God through Moses. And not only that, the purity of the blood at the beginning was free of diseases so that the issue of abnormalities we would normally be faced with today through crossbreeding (like the Hatfields and McCoys that is being discussed on another thread) does not come into play. Those could be possible solutions to those in disagreement, but I think they are bogus. There is too much speculation to those kinds of views.
So, therefore, I see these and other verses do make sense in light of other people and races existing before Adam when proper interpretation and common sense is applied.
doug
--- End quote ---
Nice to meet you too Doug, the subject has intrested me for a couple of years now. In the effort to counter deception that religion has heaped on the world in their misunderstanding of scripture, we have to rely on God to help us to understand just whats going on. Many Christians misunderstand this world not being just some 6,000 years old, when it is over 4 billion years old. I mean the earth; the universe is perhaps over 14 billion years old. Conversely many misunderstand just what it means for Adam to be the " First man." Or what the image of God means. I think it means he was the first human created in Gods image, or given consciousness, which is the Spirit in man, which I think is different than the breath of Life. The question then is, can something be alive, but yet not conscious? I think the answer is yes. Can things be alive, but not have the " Spirit in man", in them? I think again, yes.
Its no telling how many primordal humans God created, my intrest is moreso " Why"? Not if they existed, but why they existed.
Dave in Tenn:
Jesus Christ is the express image of the invisible God. Is Jesus Christ simply 'conciousness'? Of course not.
It's tough work to bring all Scripture together and there isn't any short cut. There can be short-circuits, however, that just continue to spark even though they don't provide any useful flow. They just tend to start fires. ;)
Remember why we're gathered together here.
mickiel:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on June 04, 2012, 05:02:57 PM ---Jesus Christ is the express image of the invisible God. Is Jesus Christ simply 'conciousness'? It's tough work to bring all Scripture together and there isn't any short cut. There can be short-circuits, however, that just continue to spark even though they don't provide any useful flow. They just tend to start fires. ;)
Remember why we're gathered together here.
--- End quote ---
The subject has been useful to me, and has sparked a definte intrest in me. I have never stated that Jesus is simply consciousness, I stated that I believe the image of God is consciousness. Jesus certainly is conscious, and he is conscious of his Father God. And we are conscious, all humans are conscious; thats what we have in common with God. Thats the common denomenator, thats what I think the image is. The " Gift is." And that intrest me. And I share that intrest.
I have come here to be with those of like mind and beliefs, because I grow tired of walking alone in my belief. I have simply shared what has been on my mind. If my sharing has offended, I offer my sincere apoligy; I understand I am not used to being in a group; I am a loner, a free thinker who's mind has been influenced by this great God I do not yet know. I have not been under a leader or a teacher, nor am I accoustomed to group mentality, so I apoligise for that. In 2Corinth. 4:2 " We have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."
I have said nothing that adulterates Gods word; why should I? I admit I am new here, but if I don't fit here, I know how to leave, just like I came. It wouldnot surprise me a bit, I have never fit anywherelse.
Kat:
Hi mickiel,
We gather here to fellowship and for discussion the articles that that we have read on the BT site. Those concepts that are taught there are profound to our spiritual understanding and some are quite difficult to understand, so we have this fourm so as to help one another with those teachings.
Now if we all were to express what we understood about all the different things that are in the Scriptures (Ray certainly did not cover them all), then that would set up a prime situation for debating and confusion. We are not like other sites that welcome everybody's opinions, we want to stick to those things that we agree on that is on the BT site.
Here are some of the rules of the forum as a reminder of what I speak of.
If you are considering joining this forum before reading and studying www.bible-truths.com, please reconsider.
It would be beneficial to all involved if you take the time to familiarize yourself with the teaching of L.Ray Smith first.
This is not the place to decide if you agree with the teaching of L.Ray Smith, but a place you can retreat to when you do.
This forum is primarily a place for people of a like mind to fellowship, and secondarily to discuss and question what they learn on bible-truths.com.
If you come here to teach us, please take your teaching elsewhere.
THIS FORUM IS NOT TO BE USED TO DEBATE RELIGIOUS TOPICS
mercy, peaceand love
Kat
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version