bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Paths to the truth.  (Read 16566 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Gina

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2012, 05:40:09 PM »

Mikiel,  Time to stop.  (Job 38:11)

You said previously that you only learn the truth directly from God, not from man, so why are you asking me?  Listen, if you don't believe what Paul (a man, I might add) was inspired by God to write ("knowledge shall vanish away"), then you're not going to believe me if I tell you.

Daniel 12:4  But you, Daniel, keep this prophecy a secret; seal up the book until the time of
the end, when many will rush here and there, and knowledge will increase.

Knowledge will increase, it will not be "renewed," as you said.  And then it will vanish away.

We're not being brought to a knowledge (consciousness) of the "consciousness" but to a knowledge of the Truth.

I'm finished here.  I don't want to continue this discussion.  I hope that the mods will not allow this discussion to continue.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 06:10:35 PM by Gina »
Logged

mickiel

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2012, 07:42:40 PM »

Mikiel,  Time to stop.  (Job 38:11)

You said previously that you only learn the truth directly from God, not from man, so why are you asking me?  Listen, if you don't believe what Paul (a man, I might add) was inspired by God to write ("knowledge shall vanish away"), then you're not going to believe me if I tell you.

Daniel 12:4  But you, Daniel, keep this prophecy a secret; seal up the book until the time of
the end, when many will rush here and there, and knowledge will increase.

Knowledge will increase, it will not be "renewed," as you said.  And then it will vanish away.

We're not being brought to a knowledge (consciousness) of the "consciousness" but to a knowledge of the Truth.

I'm finished here.  I don't want to continue this discussion.  I hope that the mods will not allow this discussion to continue.


My goodness, I wonder where the chip on your shoulder comes from? I have heard of people being disagreable, but creating the disagreement is new on me. Looking for disagreement, seems like a hunger to contend, not to correct.

I wonder where your hunger to contend comes from?
Logged

Gina

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2012, 08:08:45 PM »

Sticks and stones.
Logged

mickiel

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2012, 08:23:45 PM »

Sticks and stones.

I already know where it comes from.
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2012, 08:29:38 PM »


Gina and mickiel, this is just between you two, so take it to pm's.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
Logged

mickiel

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2012, 10:46:28 PM »



Anyhow back to my path to the truth. I recall no longer being able to stomach the eternal hell punishing doctrine, and I was growing weary of the limited salvation doctrines. I knew something different was happening to my belief system. And it scared me. But I could no longer listen to these baptist sermons and swallow their teachings, so I left the baptist church in search of something that I could relate to in my new thinking. Even in my years in the baptist church, I was a rebel of sorts anyway. Always questioning their views.

I went to the 7th day Adventist, then on to Jehovahs Witnesses for a brief stint; then I stumbled upon the Worldwide Church of God in Alabama one year. I kind of liked it and joined. I was very attracted to the notion of being individually called and chosen by God, that really turned me on. You know, to be a King and Priest of God was a thrill beyond my wildest imagination and unknown potential. Unlike some here, my experience with Worldwide was a mostly positive one, they had some truth in my view. And I had very good fellowship while there. They believe themselves to be the annointed called of God; as many churchs do. And I understand that thrill.

But eventually my thrist was no longer satisfied by Worldwide, I began to disagree with many of their teachings, as the Salvation of all loomed more large in my belief. I was consouled many times by their ministers and even they could sense I was on my way out. Just not of their fold any longer. Perhaps different from some here, I do not view my time there as a waste, nor am I angry or bitter for having to go through those years, mainly because I miss the fellowship; being with people, as opposed to being alone. Oh I had my years of raging on and on about the deception in religion, but I eventually pointed that rage at myself, for not living as best I can to please God's view of how one should live.

Oh I sliced up many, many people on the internet in my headhunting years, I attacked Christianity everyday and opposed all religions on this earth. My rage was never quenched, it was only directed into other areas, as I learned to be honest about religions and my belief , I also had to be honest about myself, realizing the fact that I was not chosen by God, I was just so attracted to the thought of it. I had to understand that God was dealing with my mind from time to time, opening it to things, and thats what made me desire to blend in with others who I thought he was doing the same to. And Worldwide was my closest experience with what I thought was that blend. I was wrong about that. But I enjoyed my time there; I certainly did; leaving was heartbreaking for me, not because of doctrines and knowledge, because of people! I miss the people. The friends I made and enjoyed. The basketball I played, the women I dated; and so on. The senior citizen members I grew close to and served. Yeah, those were good times.

But I don't look back on the teachings there, I basically have just about forgotten about most of them. The journey to truth has a pace of its own, and I have learned more just looking into Gods word, and the occassional inspiration from his Spirit on my own, than I have with any group. I will probally never blend in with any group again, my belief is too far moved into left feild, as I have walked alone in left feild for so long. I have posted on forums all over the internet, not being able to contain my views within me, but I have asked God to help me learn to do that. Many times my views have gotten me banned from many sites, and some sites seem to tolerate me pretty well.

My path to the truth has been one riddled with many things, many troubles and pains. Many personal disapointments. But I thank God that I can see and believe in the glory of the Salvation of all, there is no greater truth in my view, no greater gospel.

No greater path.
Logged

Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2012, 01:40:11 PM »

If you all don't mind.

Quote
Knowledge will increase, it will not be "renewed," as you said. And then it will vanish away.

Knowledge will vanish in such a way as to mean in opposition, distribution or intensity...[G2596].




1Co 13:8  Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.[G2596]
1Co 13:9  For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11  When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

The knowledge of the Truths of God will increase when God Himself shall cause one to believe,through the Faith of,Jesus the Christ.

For clarifications sake, I believe Paul is speaking of a time when all that are in the Kingdom of God will no longer need in part the knowledge of God because upon the Spiritual conversion of all of his children His perfection will become complete and the Truth of the Spirit will then be known in whole to His people, and no longer just in part.

We shall see our Lord face to face, in all Truths, with one mind, with only the parts of His truth left to vanish,thus leaving  the whole Truth, of His parts. Being mature in the Word of God is the putting away of childish things and moving unto the realm of the Truth of the Spirit in the wholeness of Spirit,not just parts, but in the whole of His Truth.

All of our parts in our relationship with God will be... I shall know fully, even as I am fully known... unto His completion,not just in part, but unto His whole fullness of Spirit.

As Ray would say...we must read all of the words...not just parts..

Pun intended... :)


Peace...Mark
Logged

mickiel

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2012, 02:07:58 PM »



Those are good points Mark, I personally believe knowledge will continue to increase. I can see how some knowledge will vanish away; such as false knowledge concerning spiritual matters; things like how to make an atom bomb, how to fix a computer, maybe how to cook certain foods; such things will no longer have a need to be known, and simply vanish.

The increase in knowledge, I certainly hope means we will one day have answers about the things about God that we question now and just don't know. Things about Jesus. Things about other creations in heaven. The 24 elders, Angels and things like that. Unanswered questions about biblical history, I don't see God being against giving clarification about that. A history class in heaven about heaven?

With a thing like knowledge ever increasing, there maynot be any boundrys to the learning.
Logged

Gina

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2012, 03:48:59 PM »

"With one mind."  "Let this mind be in you."  I'm seeing it.  Thanks, Mark.
Logged

Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2012, 04:48:32 PM »

 
Quote
I can see how some knowledge will vanish away; such as false knowledge concerning spiritual matters; things like how to make an atom bomb, how to fix a computer, maybe how to cook certain foods; such things will no longer have a need to be known, and simply vanish.

Hello mickiel.

The only knowledge that are Lord and Savior will have us to know will be the knowledge of Spirit and Truth. Everything that our old man adam stands for will be destroyed so that we can then be renewed into sons and daughters of righteousness. The flesh and all that we have come to know of it will have no worth in His Kingdom. Kind of like the butterfly disregarding the cocoon,its purpose served,if you will.

We must all die in order that we may live.The ultimate destiny of man is to put on the image of our creator in life and godliness.The old man must die in order that the new man in Christ may live.

Spiritual knowledge will be the only knowledge to life because the knowledge of flesh profits nothing.The deeds of the flesh are corrupt and have no life in us after our resurrection and Spiritual conversion. What will be renewed is renewed in knowledge after the image of him, that created him...

Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

2Co 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

 2Pe 1:4  Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Col 3:9  Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
 Col 3:10  And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Peace...Mark




Quote
"With one mind." "Let this mind be in you." I'm seeing it. Thanks, Mark.

You are welcome Gina...

Mark
Logged

mickiel

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2012, 06:12:57 PM »



I kind of like Col. 3:10, putting on the  new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the one who created him. I willnot go into how I like putting consciousness where image is in my personal study, but I will say that knowledge being renewed does imply that we will go over some things that will already have been past knowledge or former understandings, which will then be restored to a state of soundness and perfection.

Renewed can certainly connotate things already in place, or a former state of understanding that is revived, resumed,  and now we will " Go over it again"- but this time it will be fresh Holy Spirit teaching.

In vs. 11 this " Renewal" is going to be based on Christ being All and In All". Interesting, being taught new knowledge and having old knowledge corrected and perfected- a renewal that has no distinction ( no  limits in superiority is what I think that means, and the implications of that are mind boggling), I think it very possible that Christ himself will once again teach us in the Kingdom. Oh how tempted I am to go over some things on consciousness there, but I resist.

Spiritual knowledge willnot be separated or segregated. I even believe that certain people God will choose may preempt this kind of knowledge renewal before we enter into his Kingdom. But that's another differing thing.
Logged

John from Kentucky

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 903
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2012, 09:36:47 PM »

 ::)

We are in need of an emoticon shooting himself in the head to illustrate my thoughts about this thread.

I miss Ray's clarity of scriptural expression.  I knew the wolves would appear after his death, but I didn't think this soon.

Behold the days come, says the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.  Amos 8:11
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 09:46:37 PM by John from Kentucky »
Logged

servias

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2012, 10:32:43 PM »

::)

We are in need of an emoticon shooting himself in the head to illustrate my thoughts about this thread.

I miss Ray's clarity of scriptural expression.  I knew the wolves would appear after his death, but I didn't think this soon.

Behold the days come, says the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.  Amos 8:11

Thanks JFK.  My thoughts exactly...it seems everyone wants to teach or has extra god given insights all of sudden....too soon.
Logged

mickiel

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2012, 10:42:25 PM »

::)

We are in need of an emoticon shooting himself in the head to illustrate my thoughts about this thread.

I miss Ray's clarity of scriptural expression.  I knew the wolves would appear after his death, but I didn't think this soon.

Behold the days come, says the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.  Amos 8:11

 I am saddened by the death of Ray, he seemed to have been a great teacher, his mind blessed with marvelous truth. It is strange to me that my path and search for truth has led me here this last week , even though some seem unwilling to hang the welcome sign. I am also saddened by being referred to as a wolf; but I understand that. But in my heart I am encouraged by the truth that although  certain people of God may not welcome you or want you around , that God has shown me that he will welcome us wolves into his Kingdom. And I like that about God. Although I do not know him, God seems to be a welcoming Spirit to those who have messed up minds and have not been blessed to blend in with his people. Its the only chance that I have. Yet if Christ is your only chance, I think even the wolves will be alright.

 The path to the truth is often frustrating, filled with sad surprises. I recall rejecting the free will doctrine some 20 years ago, and the Church's I was involved in mistreated me because of that, they called me a wolf as well. I soon after rejected the trinity doctrine , and I began to think myself crazy. And perhaps I am. But no matter to me, I will stay on this path no matter how many things I must reject, or how many people reject me.

Peace.
Logged

servias

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2012, 12:27:29 AM »

mickiel,
Its not that we don't want to welcome you its just that we are not here to teach...but rather to help understand what has already been taught by Ray.  We all have different views on certain things and its okay to discuss it a bit with openness but any NEW TRUTHS you bring to us are going to get negative feedback...Especially so soon.  Hope you understand how we are and you are more than welcome to continue to ask questions.  And if you have only been here for a week you got lots of reading to do.  I've been around for a couple years and still feel I need to re-read 10 times as much.   :)
Logged

mickiel

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2012, 01:24:19 AM »

mickiel,
Its not that we don't want to welcome you its just that we are not here to teach...but rather to help understand what has already been taught by Ray.  We all have different views on certain things and its okay to discuss it a bit with openness but any NEW TRUTHS you bring to us are going to get negative feedback...Especially so soon.  Hope you understand how we are and you are more than welcome to continue to ask questions.  And if you have only been here for a week you got lots of reading to do.  I've been around for a couple years and still feel I need to re-read 10 times as much.   :)

Well I do understand, but I am not here to teach, I came only to fellowship  and share. Theres a definte difference between sharing and teaching. I cannot share with my family, or my friends; I cannot talk about these things in my AA  meetings, I cannot discuss these things with my fellow employees; there are few places to open up and share and discuss these things. Its strange, the almost paranoia I see here in some concerning this aversion to thinking others are trying to teach them; how could I, who has not been chosen , do not have Gods Spirit, and do not even know God, teach an individual who has Gods Spirit and has been called? Thats the biggest contridiction I have ever been accused of. Good greif, sharing is sharing, its not teaching; I admit my sharing may be strong minded, but I am the way I am, and I am no teacher of God, and have never claimed to be. I love the truth, and I don't consider what I understand to be some " new Truth", its simply what has been on my mind of late. Just things on my mind.

This paranoia with thinking that someone is trying to teach others, is quite strange to me. But I am trying to understand it. Trying to be sensitive to it. I mean if your just talking to someone, they they jump back and claim your trying to teach them; goodness, how do you then speak with them? How can you discuss the things of God with them?

But I take the blame for this, I am not accustomed to speaking with a people of God, they don't seem to live anywhere near me. And regretably Ray has passed and I seem to have visited right after that. I understand perhaps others have come here trying to teach, but I have done no such thing; I conversate the way I conversate; write the way I write. Think the way I think.

But I can understand some of this; I imagine being a people of God, some just naturally suspect everyone but themselves of being some kind of heretic. You just assume everyone is deceived, and thats scripture anyhow. But God knows I mean this place no harm, and I know he knows that; I come only for fellowship, but even that cannot be forced; I will leave in a day or two, you have my word on that. I want to finish looking at all the material, which I think is well done. A good work.

I apoligise for any inconvience  my pressence has caused.

I come in Peace, and will leave in Peace.
Logged

servias

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2012, 03:05:09 AM »

Just trying to inform you how this place works my friend....Its like you walked in, put your elbows on the table, chewed with your mouth full and said "what's the problem"?  We welcome you and your thoughts but remember the thoughts you share will be met with scripture and teachings of Ray.   Ray has just passed and we all might be a little too harsh lately so sorry if we seem to come out like that.  We are good people, really  ;D.
Dan
Logged

Craig

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4282
  • There are two kinds of cops.The quick and the dead
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2012, 09:48:18 AM »

Mickiel I am having a hard time trying to understand where you are coming from.  The rules of the forum are pretty clear, I think. We ask that the members for the most part center their posts on the scriptural teaching of Ray Smith. Some leeway is given for other discussion but when it turns to debate we ask that it stop. We don't ask that you believe what Ray teaches, we don't tell you not to study other things, other teachers, or your own thoughts, we just ask that when you post here you comment or talk about Ray's teachings.

You have not done this (mostly).  When members call you out you post with a whoa is me attitude; how you don't fit in, etc.  Well that seems to be a personal problem to me.  You can easily fit in here and you can have a fruitful time doing it, you can also hold your own opinions on things not covered by Ray's teaching, you can make friend and converse via PM's of other thoughts and teaching if you so desire.

Try and understand my example...Let's say this forum is the Ford car forum; in the rules that you agree on when joining it says please limit discussions to Ford automobiles only.  O.K you agree and join and start posting about Toyota's or Dodges and also on alternative transportation.  When you do this the members start losing patience with you and become less than friendly.  After this happens you say you just don't understand why that is, that you don't seem to fit in anywhere.  Why is that? I don't enjoy rules either for the most part, but as humans we have them in society in order to function and not have total chaos.

I hope you stay as I hope everyone who does not agree with Ray or believes in other things stay.  As you said God will be all in all with everyone.  I'll bet if you read what Ray teaches you will find that you will have enough that you agree with that you can become a helpful forum member.

Craig
Logged

mickiel

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2012, 10:43:08 AM »

Mickiel I am having a hard time trying to understand where you are coming from.  The rules of the forum are pretty clear, I think. We ask that the members for the most part center their posts on the scriptural teaching of Ray Smith. Some leeway is given for other discussion but when it turns to debate we ask that it stop. We don't ask that you believe what Ray teaches, we don't tell you not to study other things, other teachers, or your own thoughts, we just ask that when you post here you comment or talk about Ray's teachings.

You have not done this (mostly).  When members call you out you post with a whoa is me attitude; how you don't fit in, etc.  Well that seems to be a personal problem to me.  You can easily fit in here and you can have a fruitful time doing it, you can also hold your own opinions on things not covered by Ray's teaching, you can make friend and converse via PM's of other thoughts and teaching if you so desire.

Try and understand my example...Let's say this forum is the Ford car forum; in the rules that you agree on when joining it says please limit discussions to Ford automobiles only.  O.K you agree and join and start posting about Toyota's or Dodges and also on alternative transportation.  When you do this the members start losing patience with you and become less than friendly.  After this happens you say you just don't understand why that is, that you don't seem to fit in anywhere.  Why is that? I don't enjoy rules either for the most part, but as humans we have them in society in order to function and not have total chaos.

I hope you stay as I hope everyone who does not agree with Ray or believes in other things stay.  As you said God will be all in all with everyone.  I'll bet if you read what Ray teaches you will find that you will have enough that you agree with that you can become a helpful forum member.

Craig

Greetings Craig,

And thank you for your imput. I can understand your analogy and I have tried to respect that here. I don't think its important that I be understood in my views here, if a person understands something, and it be real truth, they willnot hold a monopoly on it, the Spirit will reveal it to everyone its dealing with in time. And God will correct me where I am wrong, he always has; and I certainly have been wrong about things before. And I actually agree with Ray so far, in about 95% of the things I have read.  I understand more clearly each day how this place works, and just as I think its not so important that I be understood, I quess I feel that way about any one man being understood.

I have never known a Prophet type individual or a great teacher , so I try to understand that as I have talked to a few here. I don't know what that is like. The bond it creates. The reaction it causes. Its kind of strange to me; I vist a house of God, or a place of God; I am called a wolf and dangerous, I am told to only discuss the things one man has taught, and treated cordial by a few. I quess it is a personal problem of mine Craig, I never thought the houses of God would be like that. Its just about been the same kind of thing at the other house of God I have visted; so yes, the problem is mine, its me. I have trouble fitting in with those kind of things. The limitations; the paranoia; the personal insults; the sectioned off attitude, and this strange aversion to thinking others are trying to teach you.

It certainly is a personal problem of mine, because I already know that I cannot, do not even want to, try and fit in with such things. And that is heartbreaking to me, because God may be calling me, but it seems he wants me to continue walking alone and not group off into a fold. And I don't like that.

But thats alright, to each their path. I am almost finished with my study, and I will obey the rules here and leave in Peace. I can even study it offline. I don't think I am meant to interact with Gods people, and that frustrates me without end.

Anyhow, Peace to each of you on your journey.
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2012, 11:10:25 AM »


Hi mickiel,

I'm sorry that you can not understand or accept the reason for our not allowing other teachings here. We all have a vase array of ideas and if we all wanted to share these thing it would cause much confusion and would naturally lead to debating. You can see that very thing in all the other Christian forums on the internet and we don't want that here. Ray provided a huge amount of topics and most are not simple to understand, so we can come here and discuss them further.

It is understandable the excitement and joy that people feel when finding a group of people that are like minded. We are joyful to have new comers as well and that's why we give them some leeway so that they have time to settle in.  But we will still correct obvious error even in new comers, most of us try to be gentle  :) 

Your opening comment was that you were surprised that there were some here from Worldwide. Ray was from Worldwide, he even went through Ambassador College. I was in Worldwide for 15 yrs., maybe it's a common factor, having that background that we relate to that brings us together.

We all were taught many things from the churches we attended, manmade doctrines, nothing spiritual about it. Now I feel the way that Worldwide was always in the OT and had all those special services teaching the festivals of the Israelites, it did give me a certain knowledge of those physical things that is a helpful backdrop to have.

But we are now moving on from the physical into the spiritual and sometimes some of that church teaching is so embedded in our thinking that it comes out here. So we need to be on guard against any false ideas that we, maybe unknowing hold on to and we try to help one another to recognize these unscriptural ideas if they are posted as well. So if you share remember that the Scriptures is our base of understanding and unless we can clearly see what you are saying in there, with a 2nd witness, don't expect us to go along with it.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.044 seconds with 22 queries.