bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down

Author Topic: Paths to the truth.  (Read 16461 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

arion

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 736
  • Marquette, MI
    • Big Bay Michigan Weather
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2012, 12:06:11 PM »

Well, were all individuals and certainly no hard feelings.  When I came on this forum I was quite humbled with reading all the teachings and I had to have my house built on sand collapse and come to the realization that I didn't know nearly as much as what I thought I did.  When I joined the forum I was pretty much as quiet as a church mouse for awhile as I honestly didn't think I had much that was worthy to contribute.  I did contribute with some questions that I was struggling with and I was graciously answered by others pointing me to what Ray taught on the subject.  Problem is [imo] way too many want to be teachers and they end up teaching error like most of the churches teach.  The way to do it [imo] is to pretty much keep your mouth shut and learn. If it be God's will then He will raise you up to teach his people in due time if He wishes it to be so.  James instructs us (clv)

Jas 3:1 Not many should become teachers, my brethren, being aware that we shall be getting greater judgment.

I know that Ray took that warning to heart and frankly I don't want to teach unless God himself compels me to do so and if that ever happens he will give me the platform to do so but it won't be on this forum as the rules are clear.  God bless you as you seek His will for your life.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 12:08:14 PM by Arion »
Logged

mickiel

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2012, 12:19:57 PM »


Hi mickiel,

I'm sorry that you can not understand or accept the reason for our not allowing other teachings here. We all have a vase array of ideas and if we all wanted to share these thing it would cause much confusion and would naturally lead to debating. You can see that very thing in all the other Christian forums on the internet and we don't want that here. Ray provided a huge amount of topics and most are not simple to understand, so we can come here and discuss them further.

It is understandable the excitement and joy that people feel when finding a group of people that are like minded. We are joyful to have new comers as well and that's why we give them some leeway so that they have time to settle in.  But we will still correct obvious error even in new comers, most of us try to be gentle  :) 

Your opening comment was that you were surprised that there were some here from Worldwide. Ray was from Worldwide, he even went through Ambassador College. I was in Worldwide for 15 yrs., maybe it's a common factor, having that background that we relate to that brings us together.

We all were taught many things from the churches we attended, manmade doctrines, nothing spiritual about it. Now I feel the way that Worldwide was always in the OT and had all those special services teaching the festivals of the Israelites, it did give me a certain knowledge of those physical things that is a helpful backdrop to have.

But we are now moving on from the physical into the spiritual and sometimes some of that church teaching is so embedded in our thinking that it comes out here. So we need to be on guard against any false ideas that we, maybe unknowing hold on to and we try to help one another to recognize these unscriptural ideas if they are posted as well. So if you share remember that the Scriptures is our base of understanding and unless we can clearly see what you are saying in there, with a 2nd witness, don't expect us to go along with it.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Greetings Kat,

I think I understand the reasons other teachings are not allowed, a purification of sorts, I see no problem with the purge. I am sure its benefical. I have grown tired of debating myself, but my debates have been mostly with those not called, Atheist and Christians- being out in the world and worldy websites. I too am finished with Worldwide, it was simply no longer for me. The sad thing I must face, is that I don't think any group is for me. And I don't expect others to agree with my views, that is not important to me.; its just strange to me that I can see and agree with so much from those called, but they cannot see many things I see. Thats weird. Really strange.

But it is as it is.

God is shaping things here and with other groups called and chosen; I think it is quite something to be a part of that, I almost envy that; many of you are very fortunate of this. The defense you have developed here will keep out many demonic forces I am sure are gasping to get at you. Tear at you.

It is very interesting to study a house of God, how they think and react.

I would one day love to have Gods Spirit remain in me. I think that would be quite something.

Anyhow Kat thank you for your words and for standing for what you see as truth.

Peace.
Logged

mickiel

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2012, 12:25:01 PM »

Well, were all individuals and certainly no hard feelings.  When I came on this forum I was quite humbled with reading all the teachings and I had to have my house built on sand collapse and come to the realization that I didn't know nearly as much as what I thought I did.  When I joined the forum I was pretty much as quiet as a church mouse for awhile as I honestly didn't think I had much that was worthy to contribute.  I did contribute with some questions that I was struggling with and I was graciously answered by others pointing me to what Ray taught on the subject.  Problem is [imo] way too many want to be teachers and they end up teaching error like most of the churches teach.  The way to do it [imo] is to pretty much keep your mouth shut and learn. If it be God's will then He will raise you up to teach his people in due time if He wishes it to be so.  James instructs us (clv)

Jas 3:1 Not many should become teachers, my brethren, being aware that we shall be getting greater judgment.

I know that Ray took that warning to heart and frankly I don't want to teach unless God himself compels me to do so and if that ever happens he will give me the platform to do so but it won't be on this forum as the rules are clear.  God bless you as you seek His will for your life.

No hard feelings taken. I quess keep your mouth shut and learn, is just not for me.

Peace.
Logged

Samson

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2012, 12:45:53 PM »

Hello Mickiel,

There's nothing wrong with having your personal idea's, speculations about Life and considerations about Topics that may not be Scripturally clear. However, We have a specific set of rules that all of us agreed on when joining this Forum and as mentioned By Kat, some Leeway is given, but the Moderators determine how far that leeway is given.

It sounds as if you have a DESIRE to be heard, since you've been rejected quite so often in past experiences, that's understandable, but if that's the case, share your speculations by PM"S or join Facebook so you get share your ideas with a large Universalist Contingency, many from this Site and some of the other Universalist Sites have their adherents discussing things all over Facebook.

As Craig stated about rules, I don't like them either, in general, but the reality is, no one is forced to join the Forum and although no one is flawless, even the Moderators in regards to the application of the Forum rules, these rules seem to work for the greater good of all Forum Members and I've witnessed this since January 2008.

I don't think your necessarily a Wolf, since Wolves are usually much more subtle in hiding their true natures in order to not get detected. Of course, Wolves don't necessarily know they are Wolves, because they bring in deceptive teachings that they themselves have already been deceived by. In my opinion, it seems your looking for validation or to be recognized, instead, put the emphasis on God and consider yourself a piece of Clay in the Potters hand, because none of us are important, We are the refuse of the World, God chose the foolish things of the World, the ignoble things, the weak things in order to put the wise men to shame.

As Craig mentioned, there is much information from this Forum that We can all agree on, you mentioned you agree with 95% of the material from Ray's writings, Well, why not discuss that.

I hope and pray that there are sufficient CAUSES that will lead you to choose and desire to stay here and submit to the Forum Rules. Also, you can never read Ray's articles often enough. Just finished re-reading the Free Will Series and discovered some points of importance I forgot about, will share with you below.

From Part C of the Free Will Series:

    “O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself. It is not in man that walks to direct his steps” (Jer. 10:23).

No man has a will that can choose contrary to what God already knows will be: “…and calls those things which be not [thoughts and deeds which have not yet been supposedly ‘freely’ thought of] as though they were [as though they already were thought of—how is that ‘freedom’ of the will?]” (Rom. 4:17).

I will repeat this until I am blue in the face, and perchance somebody out there will say, “Ah, yes, now I get it.” Once more: Since God says very plainly that He knows all things and that He knows all things before they happen, how is it then possible that anyone can think a thought which God didn’t know he would have to think? And if God already knows every thought that you must think: how are you free to not think those very foreknown thoughts and those foreknown thoughts only?

If any person in the history of the world can think one thought that God did not foreknow that he would think, then God cannot;

    “call those things which be not as though they were.”

    “Man’s goings [Heb: ‘steps’] are of the Lord; how can a man then understand his own way?” (Prov. 20:24).

    “The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the Lord.” (Prov. 16:1).

No one can make one statement out of his mouth, unless it was first pre-ordained, foreknown, and approved of, by God!

    “The Son of man [Jesus] can do nothing of Himself… without Me [Jesus] ye [all of you—all of mankind] can do nothing” (John 5:19 & 15:5].

GOD DID NOT PUT ‘ETERNITY’ IN THE HEART OF MANKIND



    “He [God] has made everything fitting [not ‘beautiful’] in its season; However, He has put obscurity in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does.”  (Ecc. 3:11).

So God has made everything that there is (even though much of it is evil, ugly, and NOT ‘beautiful,’) fitting, proper, appropriate, and suited for its own season, “but” or “however”—here comes a counter proposal, if you will. So God makes EVERYTHING proper and appropriate for His plan, however…. BUT, “…He has put OBSCURITY in their hearts…” so that, or in order that, they CANNOT know or understand what it is that He is doing to them in this human existence we call “life.” What a spiritual revelation!

We have hundreds of Scriptures that verify the fact that God does do according to His plan and intention, always, and everywhere, but there are few verses as this verse which tells us specifically how He had HID [concealed, obscured] this marvelous operation from the eyes of carnal humanity as this verse does.

But Jesus Christ can set us free from the carnal mind, and give us spiritual discernment, and increase our knowledge, and make us wise so that we can understand. Here then is the revelation of a major mystery:

God uses mankind with his “obscured heart” to do all of His intentions without mankind every consciously knowing that God is working His purpose through them—“so that no man can find out the work that God makes from the beginning to the end.”

A Biblical Example of Someone with An "OBSCURED" Heart mentioned below.

Isaiah 10:5-17:

    “O Assyrian, the rod of Mine anger, and the staff in their hand is Mine indignation. I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of My wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.

    Howbeit HE means not so, neither does HIS heart [his ‘obscured’ heart—Ecc. 3:11] think so; but it is in HIS heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few. For he says, Are not MY princes altogether kings…

    As my hand has found the kingdoms of the idols, and whose graven images did excel them of Jerusalem and of Samaria; Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols? Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord has performed His whole work [at the hands of the Assyrians] upon Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria and the glory of his high looks.

    For he says, By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by the wisdom; for I am prudent: and I have removed the bounds of the people, and have robbed their treasures, and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man: And my hand has found as a nest the riches of the people: and as one gathers eggs that are left, have I gathered all the earth; and there was none that moved the wing, or opened the mouth, or peeped.

    Shall the ax [king of Assyria] boast itself against him that hews therewith [God]? Or shall the saw [king of Assyria] magnify itself against Him that saws with it [God] as if the rod [king of Assyria] should shake itself against them that lift it up [God], or as if the staff [king of Assyria] should lift up itself, as if it were no wood [but rather something with free will and the power of self-determinism].

    Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle it burning like the burning of a fire. And the light of Israel shall be for fire, and His Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day”

That section of Scripture is pretty much self-explanatory. This is a perfect example where God fills in the whys and wherefores of how He operated and worked with the king of Assyria to punish His people, Israel.

But this is also how God works with all kings and presidents, and heads of corporations, and heads of families, and all humanity. God “…works ALL according to the counsel of His Own will.” But just like the King of Assyria, not so is all humanity thinking in THEIR heart. They don’t believe that God uses them on a daily basis just as He did with the King of Assyria. That’s because:

    “He [God] has made everything FITTING in its season; However, He has put OBSCURITY in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does from the beginning to the end.” (Ecc. 3:11).

Hopefully, none of Us at this Forum have "An Obscured Heart," like We did in the past by putting the emphasis towards what We did on a particular matter when it's God working ALL according the counsel of His own Will.

Just some thought for your consideration, Samson.
Logged

John from Kentucky

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 903
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2012, 03:45:01 PM »

Mickiel,

I had decided to say no more.  But in your reply to Craig you said, "I have never known a Prophet type individual or a great teacher..."

Something is just not ringing true.  You said you were in the Worldwide Church of God for 10 years?  Herbert W. Armstrong was called God's modern Apostle.  His book The Mystery of the Ages was called the greatest spiritual writing since the New Testament was written.  His word was law in the church.  The WCG was the most uptight, conservative religious entity I have ever known, not that much different from a group of Hasidic Jews.  If we missed Sabbath services, we would be reported to the local minister and inquiries would be made about our absence.  At our local church, we were watched at church pot lucks to see if we ate a dark spot on a piece of chicken.  If we did, this was reported to the minister because we had ate "blood" in violation of the OT teaching.

We thought Herbert and his son Ted were the two witnesses.  Their authority was passed on to those who came after them.

The Forum rules consist of just a few sentences that are easily understood.  The WCG was a super Nazi type of church that tried to enforce the Law of Moses to the nth degree.

How can you say you are not used to a structured environment if you were a member of the WCG (or any of the offshoots) for 10 years?  Something does not compute.

John 
Logged

mickiel

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2012, 04:20:47 PM »

Hello Mickiel,

There's nothing wrong with having your personal idea's, speculations about Life and considerations about Topics that may not be Scripturally clear. However, We have a specific set of rules that all of us agreed on when joining this Forum and as mentioned By Kat, some Leeway is given, but the Moderators determine how far that leeway is given.

It sounds as if you have a DESIRE to be heard, since you've been rejected quite so often in past experiences, that's understandable, but if that's the case, share your speculations by PM"S or join Facebook so you get share your ideas with a large Universalist Contingency, many from this Site and some of the other Universalist Sites have their adherents discussing things all over Facebook.
Just some thought for your consideration, Samson.[/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color]

Greetings Samson,

Really I just wanted to see what this group of God thought about my thoughts on consciousness, and that was answered; I found that out, and thats only WHY I threw it out there, not to teach or convince, just to see what others with Spirit influenced minds thought of it. Being alone I just often wonder what others of like mind are thinking on things. I think I just really didnot read your rules like I should have.

I quess I tend to want to discuss certain topics on the edge that are not so controlled topics. But I understand that.
Logged

mickiel

  • Guest
Re: Paths to the truth.
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2012, 04:36:40 PM »

Mickiel,

I had decided to say no more.  But in your reply to Craig you said, "I have never known a Prophet type individual or a great teacher..."

Something is just not ringing true.  You said you were in the Worldwide Church of God for 10 years?  Herbert W. Armstrong was called God's modern Apostle.  His book The Mystery of the Ages was called the greatest spiritual writing since the New Testament was written.  His word was law in the church.  The WCG was the most uptight, conservative religious entity I have ever known, not that much different from a group of Hasidic Jews.  If we missed Sabbath services, we would be reported to the local minister and inquiries would be made about our absence.  At our local church, we were watched at church pot lucks to see if we ate a dark spot on a piece of chicken.  If we did, this was reported to the minister because we had ate "blood" in violation of the OT teaching.

We thought Herbert and his son Ted were the two witnesses.  Their authority was passed on to those who came after them.

The Forum rules consist of just a few sentences that are easily understood.  The WCG was a super Nazi type of church that tried to enforce the Law of Moses to the nth degree.

How can you say you are not used to a structured environment if you were a member of the WCG (or any of the offshoots) for 10 years?  Something does not compute.

John

I used to think for a very short while that Mr. Armstrong was an apostle but I soon began to question that, thats one reason I had constant trouble with ministers, I was put out before. I stopped believing that. They thought many things I began not to believe, but I saw nowherelse to go, until God gave me the strength and ability to walk on my own. So I don't view him as an Apostle, but I think God used that church for certain things, even as a beginning for many here. A filter to bring you through for his own purpose.

But I do think Armstrong was a good writer, so your point is well taken, I was under a dynamic leader for awhile, but I consider Rays mind as far more spiritual than Armstrongs. I have never been under a guy like Ray. But after Armstrong, I have had my fill of being under men. Their rules and regulations; so I best walk alone.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.05 seconds with 22 queries.