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[Gina]

Aw Bob you stumped me.  Please, watch this gif while I formulate my reply:

GIFSoup   

 

[Gina]

Okay, I'm back.  Bob, you ask GOOD questions.  As I said in my previous response to musicman, I'll have to give it more study -- a lot more study.  Maybe someone else has the answer for you.  But I'll say this:  There were 8 people who survived the flood, but we all know the flood wasn't global; so were they in hiding?  I'd have to speculate, and I won't do that.

Do you think I should remove my reply to musicman about the giants?  Because I have no problem doing that. 

[indianabob]

Gina,

Thanks for the response and the video of the 1941 film "Gone with the Confederacy", I think.

Regarding removing what was previously sent, only if your conscience dictates, otherwise no.
Musicman is a big boy and can defend himself quite adequately and if you remove what was previously stated the other readers will become confused trying to determine what prompted his defense.

Indianabob (Ibob)

[Gina]

That's iBob -- "like" the iMac.  Only, you're so much smarter.

Glad you liked the gif.  You know, Gone with the Confederacy or Gone with the Wind -- same thing.  They were just a bunch of blowhards after all, right?   

Thanks for the advice.   

 

[musicman]

Gina,

Thanks for the response and the video of the 1941 film "Gone with the Confederacy", I think.

Regarding removing what was previously sent, only if your conscience dictates, otherwise no.
Musicman is a big boy and can defend himself quite adequately and if you remove what was previously stated the other readers will become confused trying to determine what prompted his defense.

Indianabob (Ibob)

I wasn't defending anything.  It was a joke.  I'm sure that giants after the flood only goes to show that there were many people living outside of flood zone.

[levycarneiro]

Hello Levycarneiro,
I'm one of those old fossils, age 77, but I am definitely not threatened by NEW ideas.
I like to think that our ancestors were just as adventurous as young folks in their teens and twenties.
Plus our progenitors, had original revealed knowledge and intellect and physical attributes that would put to shame those of us who are the result of centuries of deterioration and genetic diseases.
Contrary to popular scientific belief, our ancestors who lived in caves, if that be true, (I'm confident that they had ample building materials) had many advantages that we today do not enjoy. One of those advantages would have been insatiable curiosity and the physical/mental ability to take advantage of it. We on the other hand are the result of natural entropy due to disobedience to God's perfect laws.

Hoping to hear more from you in Brazil.

Indiana Bob USA

Hello Bob!

Thanks for the comment. All this thread has made me change my mind about several topics already! I truly enjoy being part of the BT family.

God bless!
Levy

[doug]

I'm one of those old fossils, age 77, but I am definitely not threatened by NEW ideas.

Hi Bob -

Your statement on accepting new ideas brings to mind a quote from a recent centenarian I've always kept in my thots:

"one reason I attribute to my longevity is to embrace change... even if it slaps you in the face."

He was still mentally adept and going strong!

I have also equally believed and adhered to this quote of yours:


We on the other hand are the result of natural entropy due to disobedience to God's perfect laws. [end quote]

I believe it is because of this reason that mankind dies off as early as we do (in God's perfect plan) with the corrupted food supply offered to each of us -- our polluted environment (air, water, ozone etc. ) and the mutations in our genetic makeup.

hey - btw ---   since Plymouth is so close to Auburn.... I was wondering if the Auburn car show was still going on? Auburns were some of the most beautiful automobiles I have seen.  I was in attendance once in '85.  Have an uncle and cousins who live there.

doug

[Gina]

Gina,
Is the Bible correct to say that only eight persons survived the "flood"?
Does this account for the remaining Giants if any?
Or were they protected somewhere else and came out of hiding to fight David?

Bob

I'm ready.  This is not a shot in the dark------------well, maybe.

I do agree and believe that there were 8 people who entered the huge ark. 

I do agree and believe that Noah gathered all sorts of animals, etc.,

We are talking HUGE amounts of work to be done. 

(And that reminds me of a song I'm gonna post.  It's  too for school.)

Does anyone remember how Ray says -- a statement of fact is not a statement of limitation? Hmmm?

Gen 6:4  There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that [those days], when the sons of God [the First Adam/Humanity - as in:  Let Us make HUMANITY in Our image] came in unto the daughters of men [why OF men and not of God, like the sons of God? Is it possible that these daughters of men would have been daughters of the aforementioned giants?], and they [the big girls?] bare children to them [sons of God], the same [children] became mighty men.  Mighty men?  Mighty like  giants?

These are valid questions.

I wouldn't want to make an idol out of this or anything--but how unlikely would it be to assume that God kept some of those mighty men and giants around for the express purpose of taking care of all those animals?  It would have taken a boatload of people to do all that work.  Heck, the giants I imagine helped get some of those larger animals into the ark.

So my "theory" is that these same giants came out from Noah's ark and that's how they would have survived the flood and in that way were, as you said, "protected and came out of hiding."  Did these giants then go to fight David?  I don't know the answer to that question.
But I had fun figuring that other stuff out.

 ¹¹⁰

[indianabob]

Hi Gina and all,
So many unsubstantiated "facts" to unravel.
I will get back to ya'll on this after my appointment for Depo-medrol.
It's for my steel knee which is swollen, limiting my work out at the Gym.
I know, I know steel doesn't swell, but the tissue around it does.
Plus some of this stuff I have to research in my human anatomy texts.

Regards, Ole Bob (who was on the big boat 4300 years ago) in spirit

[Shawn Fainn]

So my "theory" is that these same giants came out from Noah's ark and that's how they would have survived the flood and in that way were, as you said, "protected and came out of hiding."  Did these giants then go to fight David?  I don't know the answer to that question.
But I had fun figuring that other stuff out.
 ¹¹⁰

I'm thinking these 'giants' might rock the boat a bit... 

[Kat]

I believe the Bible account of only 8 people entering the ark and coming out of that great flood alive. But I do not believe that it was a worldwide event, there are just too many things that Ray brought out that indicate that it was not. Therefore the giants could certainly survived.

But as far as it being referred to as the whole world, it occurred to me that history books refer to ancient rulers such as Alexander the Great to have conquered the whole world. Yet we know that he did not even know there was the American continents, much less conquer this part of the world. What I'm getting at is that it was the 'whole' known world to them.

Another problem I have with the flood being worldwide is how would all the animals that are indigenous to certain parts of the world have gotten to the ark? I mean seriously what about the kangaroos in Australia and all those unique and rare animals in Madagascar. And what about America? We have many animals not found in Europe, such as the American bison (Buffalo), cougar, porcupine, coyote, raccoon, badger, etc. Now how did they make their way to the ark? The flood did not resulted in mass extinction of these animal, because they are still here.

Anyway there are just way too many problems with the flood being worldwide and Ray gave a very plausible explanation of how it was not. So anyway that's just some thoughts.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Ireland]

Interesting topic and alot to learn and see in this thread. I will add a few thoughts in regards to the scriptures dealing with these Sons of God. I believe they are the ones spoken of in Job 38:7, Psa 45:7 and Psa 89:6.
These Sons of God in Genesis were supposed to look after these people on the earth and deal righteously with them. These were heavenly beings that gave up their first estate and sinned by marrying these daughters of men. Jude 1:6 seems to be the verse in referrence to these Sons of God and their punishment for disobeying God. I look forward to the further exploration of this topic. Thanks

[Gina]

Yes, Kat.  The flood wasn't global.  You make excellent points.  The church should have never taught the flood was global and discounted that there were cavemen (which they say goes against scripture) and a lot of nonsense could have been avoided.  But alas that's not the way God would design it.  That's why I think it's so amazing these times we live in with our technology.

Hi Ireland:  The sons of God were not:

while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy? Job 38:7

You love righteousness, and hate wickedness: therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows. Psalm 45:7

For who in the skies above can compare with the LORD? Who is like the LORD among the heavenly beings? (Psalm 89:6)

Here's what Ray has said regarding the matter:

The angels CANNOT MARRY (they have no 'marriage apparatus' if you know what I mean). Yet we are told in Gen. 6:2, that "they took them WIVES of all which they chose." To have a "wife" one must be "MARRIED."   The sons of God and the daughters of men are BOTH HUMAN. 
( http://bible-truths.com/email12.htm )

"...they have no marriage apparatus if you know what I mean."  Ha! See now that makes a lot of sense.

Gina

[Gina]

Precisely Hudson -- Andre the Giant!  He's just one example of a giant that we know of.
 

[Kat]

Hi Ireland,

Gen 6:2  the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were good. And they took wives for themselves from all whom they chose.

Among the people of that time there were those that were known to serve God/obey God, such as the family of Seth.

Gen 4:26  And there was also a son born to Seth, and he called his name Enos. Then men began to call upon the name of Jehovah.

Now it is not hard to think that those people that showed special reverence to God were considered/called "sons of God." There are Scripture that indicate that.

Psa 82:6  I have said, You are gods; and all of you sons of the Most High.
v. 7  But you shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Now those others that were referred to as the "daughters of men" may have been the rest that were not so godly/righteous. One family that comes to mind is Cain's. Would the Scripture that says "Cain went away from the presence of the Lord" suggest that he did not serve/obey God after he was cursed (well not before that as well)?

Gen 4:16  Then Cain went away from the presence of the LORD and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

I just think there are plausible explanations for this, rather than the notion that literal ethereal angels were marrying physical women. Even all the different forms of flesh (fish, birds, animals and human), these cannot mix and reproduce, now alone things from different realms of being.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[indianabob]

Thanks all for your contributions.

To me it is just like the secular person asking whether God is a male or a female or calling God ( the creator God) HER instead of HIM. It is just human foolishness from those not understanding the idea of spiritual or (unknown to us) things of the so called spiritual world or realm.
Spirit is not a definitive word as used in the English Bible. The word is just a substitute for saying in more words (it is something we can't see or touch and don't understand other than that it has an effect)
For example; God causes us to come to understand certain things about God's self that we didn't read or were not taught by another person. How so? By the working of God's spirit! That's what Paul taught in Galations 1:6-20. So what is the spirit of God? What does it mean "the working of God's spirit? It Just means that God gave him the understanding directly to his mind without vibrating the air to bring sound to Paul's ear. Or sending light beams through Paul's eye retina. It means giving Paul visions directly to his BRAIN. Visions of the night or visions of the day so that Paul gradually began to understand things written in Scripture and other things that Paul had not even read in the gospel, mysteries (God's previously unrevealed secrets) by a miracle of God's doing.

Gal 1:11  But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12  For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Read all please.
Also Ephesians 3:3:7

The point is that the so called spiritual realm is separate from the physical one unless God brings them together. There is no reason for an angel (messenger) to have reproductive capacity. God can create as many Angels as God wants. Reproduction is for humans only so that they may in a small way share with God the engendering of new life with the potential of life immortal.

One comment about loading the ark. I believe the Bible says that God caused the animals to come up two by two but with seven of the clean species. Noah didn't have to do a thing and certainly didn't have to search for them or decide which were appropriate for saving. Regarding size, they all could have been immature yearlings. Regarding variations of species, God can subdivide anyway he wants it is only man that cannot husband animals into subspecies of man's choosing. We need only one lion and one bear and one ape species with adaptive genes already in place.

Just my view that we should not limit God, only our own experimentation.

Indianabob

[Gina]

Yeah, no need to make  an idol of the heart out of that, like I said.  But it's better than sitting in a bar throwing back margaritas.       IMHO

How the animals were caused by God to enter the ark remains to be seen?   From what I can tell from my short time here on earth is that, animals are not typically fond of being cooped up; I picture them having to be captured or dragged in against their will. 

I can also see that you're not fond of my giants being in the ark.  Okay, let's do it your way.

Let's assume Noah didn't need to do anything to get the animals in the ark and God just directed them in in twos (or whatevers), you really think 8 people could have taken care of all those animals?  They'd have to be washed and fed and their cages needed cleaning; these animals weren't doing all that themselves.  And what if they were giving birth to their young and multiplying while in the ark?  I don't know but I think some large farm hands would come in rather, um, handy.    

Well anyhoo--I hope all goes well tomorrow for you and the swelling goes down.

[Ireland]

Hi Gina and Bob. I have to disagree with you both, but I am always open to be corrected if I am in the wrong. That is our job as believers in my opinion. We all have to taught by the Father and corrected often. It is humbling but also a blessing when we can learn from each other. Otherwise we would all become arrogant and unteachable. It is my impression that none of us want that. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and I mean that sincerely. I used to believe the same thing you both did about these Sons of God, but feel strongly that if L. Ray had more time he would take a longer look at this topic. There is now way any one man can study and learn of all the thousands of subjects in the scriptures in one life time.
Here is the verse I want to propose to you all and that is Job 38:7. Please take a look if you have the time or inclination. Have a good weekend to everyone!

[cjwood]

as far as the ark and the animals; how they got there, how they would be fed, and what to do with all the poo, i just tell myself that NO job is too big for God.  i mean, He created the WHOLE universe and every little bitty, minute detail for ALL of it.  so, that helps me when trying to figure out these kind of things.

claudia

[Kenneth Clark]

Let's assume Noah didn't need to do anything to get the animals in the ark and God just directed them in in twos (or whatevers), you really think 8 people could have taken care of all those animals?  They'd have to be washed and fed and their cages needed cleaning; these animals weren't doing all that themselves.  And what if they were giving birth to their young and multiplying while in the ark?  I don't know but I think some large farm hands would come in rather, um, handy.     

unless...unless...it was just as a miracle as the parting of the red sea.   totally off topic...but...has anyone ever googled map mount Sinai?  its in Saudi Arabia and clearly seen from above...i just jumped in here and am maybe way off topic, but its sooooo cool and only reinforces my faith.